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Subject: New Friggin Frigates for the RDN
TheArmchairCmd    9/27/2005 1:55:12 PM
The Danish Navy Material Command has released some info on the new class of three frigates, built on the basis of the hull of the Absalon (FSS) class. Since it is in danish, I have made this little compilation. Quick overview Displacement 6200 tonnes Lenght 138 m Crew approx. 100 with berthing for 160 Speed approx. 28 knots Range at 15 knots 9000 nm Radars: Either Sampson + Smart S Mk2 or APAR + Smart L http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jni/jni050923_1_n.shtml + additional sensors (no specifics on sonar, ESM, IRST, etc.) Weapons 32 cell VLS launcher for long range SAMs (depending on sensor package, but Mk-41 SL preferred) 24 ESSMs (already in use in the RDN) 8 Harpoon Block IIs (already in use in the RDN) 76 mm DP Oto gun, but prepared for 127 mm Mk 45 mod 4 (already in use in the RDN) 35 mm Oerlikon Millenium CIWS (anybody got info on this one?) ASW torpedoes, probably MU90 which is already in use... Decoy system from Terma would be a sure guess... Propulsion MTU 4 x 20V M70 diesels, each providng 8200kWs Hanger for 1 EH101 Maritime helo or 1 Superlynx + 3 UAVs If all goes according to plan, the first keel should be laid down mid 2008, and all three should be commisioned by 2012. If this is the replacement for the sub squadron, then I am more than happy :) Oooh yes! Whaddaya say? TAC
 
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Thomas    RE:New Friggin Frigates for the RDN   9/28/2005 6:57:59 AM
Pleas give link, some of us do understand Danish. No I don't think it is a replacement for the subs - as such: 1. I think methods has been developed, that makes subs in the Baltic unlikely to survive. And that was the real reason behind the lease of Kronborg - they wanted to see if a modern sub could be usefull. 2. I think it an expression of the reorientation of the Danish defence towards the Baltic. Note that the Estonian command ship (formerly HDMS Beskytteren) is visiting Denmark. The replacement should rather be seen as a replacement of the HAWK batteries: Rather splash the bad guys over the remote part of the Baltic than over Danish territory. What does give pause is: A. It is a fairly large ship and Dansih ships for the Baltic has traditionally been small. Tordenskiold never used anything bigger than a frigate.' B. Absalon has been tested on the Ocean, and the problems seem to have been mechanical. This is interesting, at it means that the hull should be fine for the Atlantic. C. If the berthing from Absalon is kept for these 3 vessels it means that Denmark (inclusive Absalon-class) can land a battalion (command facilities in Absalon-class). The same concept as the US Marines use. D. The really interesting part is that it is apparently possible to build a ship that can be of use in both the closed waters in the Baltic AND in the Atlantic!
 
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TheArmchairCmd    RE:New Friggin Frigates for the RDN   9/28/2005 8:42:38 AM
Hi Thomas, Det er godt at se en anden dansker her på SP ;) Er først selv kommet til for nylig. 'Pleas give link, some of us do understand Danish.' Frigates (danish: 'patruljeskibe' or patrol ships) http://forsvaret.dk/NR/rdonlyres/EAA95FEE-99D3-49C6-817E-8517BDB640E9/0/Præsentation_PS.pdf Flexible Support Ships http://forsvaret.dk/NR/rdonlyres/52CAD8FD-D172-43F4-A67E-33FFB8DAFB5F/0/Præsentation_FS.pdf This might also interest you http://forsvaret.dk/NR/rdonlyres/56E15A3B-8B8A-4BCE-A36A-606FF9ADE394/0/Præsentation_IF.pdf The danish military is reorienting itself towards expeditionary capabilities instead of fighting locally; it is in this context my views are given. 'No I don't think it is a replacement for the subs - as such: 1. I think methods has been developed, that makes subs in the Baltic unlikely to survive. And that was the real reason behind the lease of Kronborg - they wanted to see if a modern sub could be usefull.' I don't know what the motivation for the lease of Kronborg was. But the sub sqn was terminated due to the withdrawal from the Nordic Viking project. So the frigates were ordered in place of the Vikings. http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/viking.html Though awesome, they will be of limited use in international operations, especially in terms of deployment. The frigates are much more versatile and deployable. '2. I think it an expression of the reorientation of the Danish defence towards the Baltic. Note that the Estonian command ship (formerly HDMS Beskytteren) is visiting Denmark.' No. We may be politically oriented towards the Baltic, but the force structure in terms of mission and equipment is being oriented towards expeditionary warfare. Nice that Beskytteren has found a second life in Estonia. Also note the fairly recent decommisioning of an entire class of FAC (Willemoes class), minelayers, and the recent selloff of four Flyvefisken to Finland. Hardly looks as we're orienting towards the Baltic. 'The replacement should rather be seen as a replacement of the HAWK batteries: Rather splash the bad guys over the remote part of the Baltic than over Danish territory.' The I-Hawk batteries were scrapped in order to gain critical mass in other areas. Furthermore they would have been of little value (superfluous) in the expeditionary context they could have been deployed. NATO or Coalition deployment of ground forces would inherently mean that air defense would be provided by air assets much more capable than the ground based Hawk. TBMD capabilites are also much better covered by our allies. Though the new frigates may at some stage be able to perform that role. The extended area defence that the frigates provide does not replace the Hawk. The RDAF F16 MLU5's and their AIM120's are the primary air defense platform in Denmark. 'What does give pause is: A. It is a fairly large ship and Dansih ships for the Baltic has traditionally been small. Tordenskiold never used anything bigger than a frigate.' B. Absalon has been tested on the Ocean, and the problems seem to have been mechanical. This is interesting, at it means that the hull should be fine for the Atlantic. D. The really interesting part is that it is apparently possible to build a ship that can be of use in both the closed waters in the Baltic AND in the Atlantic!' I think A, B and D supports my point. Absalon has been tested extensively, also in the tropics, since the focus is on out-of-the-house ops. The mechanical problems were very minor and was fixed during the sea trials. 'C. If the berthing from Absalon is kept for these 3 vessels it means that Denmark (inclusive Absalon-class) can land a battalion (command facilities in Absalon-class). The same concept as the US Marines use.' The Absalon can accomdate 300, whilst the frigates have space for 160. The extra berthing on the frigates are meant for extra staff when used in the command role, maybe also for SF personnel. In terms of sensors an number of missile cells the frigates will be roughly equivalent to the dutch LCF, spanish F100, and german F124, all AAW frigates. Hence a 'standard' for NRF, for which one frigate will be attached. Enjoy TAC
 
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Thomas    RE:New Friggin Frigates for the RDN   9/29/2005 5:16:22 AM
Glad for at have dig ombord, jeg har længe ene mand måttet bekæmpe svenskerne! With all respect: My point is that there is no contradiction between the international engagement and the Baltic defence! That is the beauty of it! As to berthing: Four ships (one will always be in the yard) give a capacity of around 800 - which is a battallion. As to SP forces, perhaps; but the berthing arrangement is hugely overdimentioned for that purpose. the general problem the Danish vessel has had in international operations is their low endurance. They pack a lot of punch, but depend on command facilities on shore - those will not be available neither in the Baltic or on international operations.
 
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Thomas    RE:New Friggin Frigates for the RDN   9/29/2005 5:39:20 AM
Thanks for the links: 1. The tasks set for the Patruljeskibe does reflect excatly the task I would set for the support of operations in the Baltic! 2. The new ships for Greenland: That makes sense out of the discussion about Hans Ø!! (se Canada board).
 
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