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Subject: Danish Airforce 2020?
Schackleford    6/5/2005 5:02:14 AM
Any ideas of what aircraft the Danish Airforce should choose to replace our F-16A's when they eventually reach their end. Denmark is a partner on the JSF program, so we will most likely end up with this modern and capable fighter-bomber. Baring that, the JAS39 Gripen seems to be the platform of choice. Being truly multirole, the Gripen is a fine modern aircraft for whatever needs there will arise for Denmark for the forseeable future.
 
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DropBear    RE:Gripen/Eurofighter/JSF - Baltics   12/6/2005 10:04:14 AM
Damn! You chaps have less than I thought. Do you need a few dozen digital Pigs with Harpoon, Raptor/Popeye, sidewinder, GBU-xx etc? I'd hate to think the national air force of Thomas's home country had less than those pesky Swedes. ;)
 
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TheArmchairCmd    RE:Gripen/Eurofighter/JSF - Baltics   12/6/2005 10:17:53 AM
Dangdangdang. My computer just crashed 3 hrs of GIS DB work. I'm going home to get away from this.
 
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DropBear    RE:Gripen/Eurofighter/JSF - Baltics   12/6/2005 10:26:23 AM
GIS? As in geographical information systems?
 
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TheArmchairCmd    RE:Gripen/Eurofighter/JSF - Baltics   12/6/2005 10:27:53 AM
Yup. Route planning in this instance. But I'm shutting down now. Cheers
 
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DropBear    RE:Gripen/Eurofighter/JSF - Baltics   12/6/2005 10:33:09 AM
I did transport/traffic and strategic planning on GIS when I was doing my undergrad degree. Good stuff! :)
 
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Yimmy    RE:Gripen/Eurofighter/JSF - Baltics   12/6/2005 10:45:26 AM
Drop - no, I am not too happy at the thought of the F35. The only thing going for the F35 over the Typhoon and Rafel is its pyhsical stealth. This physical stealth will have handicaps in aerodynamics and the likes, I do not see how it can be had for nothing. This is while hardware like that can not be updated, whereas software, such as stealth by electronic active counter-measures and the likes can be updated as the years progress. The F35 may be stealthy from todays radars, but I would bet my last dollar that it wont be stealthy to radars comig online in a decade.
 
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Thomas3    Saundry   12/6/2005 8:44:02 PM
Schackleford and TAC has covered a lot of the ground very well indeed; but following: The ruskies are not that liable to fly off a handle, as indonesians might be: Let's keep it that way! The Nordic solution has been discussed with a lot of seriousness and pretence 3 times in the last 100 years : It is a no-go. A nordic union defence or otherwise is not able to within economically relevant limits to step up to a situation in the Baltic. Chances are that if the russian attack the Swedish Prime Minister is unavailable. Having about 48 F-16's is not the important thing: We can get all the one we could possibly need within a year or two. The same thing with the F-35. Once production starts rolling we will be able to increase the order - or more likely reorder - at a reasonable cost. That cannot be done with the TAIFUN (it is a German project as well - a somewhat updated form of the Bf-108), nor the Rafael, nor the Gripen. Chances are that when éxtra planes are needed, they are out of production AND the producers need all they can lay their hand on themselves - the only thing we will be able to get are propellers added to a bow and arrow. We tried that at the outbreak of WW2 - bad situation! One of the many advantages with the F-35 is: If we need 150 for a real security threatning situation, we buy 50 - if the situation does not arise we have saved 2/3. If we buy Gripen: We buy 150 get 50, as the rest have to cannibalised for spares. THE IMPORTANT CONCEPT IS: WHERE IS OUR STRATEGIC RESERVE??????? Even the Finns are whetting their pants and talking about joining Nato (occationally) - and they are not easily scared! Secondly: Range is a problem, as it is not Danish skies we are talking in reality, it is Estonian skies! That is a bit further than Stockholm (evil glint in the eye). Thirdly: If everything is quiet in the Baltic, we are likely to be called upon to do a bit of yeoman duty in Afghanistan or whereever. Then it is not a good idea if the refueling flange doesn't fit. And your pane need 7 smart and easy stops en route to refuel, plus you cannot get resupply of smart bombs, as the thing available won't fit! The least terrible alternative is probably the Taifun, Furthermore two engines are not necessarily more expensive than one: Hub stresses are minor and so on. The basic fact is that you build a fighter around the best engine available. Wrapping aluminium around an engine is the minor design problem, electronics give even fewer problem (if you do not use a swedish programmer - a couple af nasty tumblings of the Gripen spring to mind). The problem is can you accomplish the mission with one engine or do you need two. The F-35 has the newest engine.
 
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DropBear    RE:Saundry   12/6/2005 10:00:22 PM
Secondly: Range is a problem, as it is not Danish skies we are talking in reality, it is Estonian skies! That is a bit further than Stockholm (evil glint in the eye). I hear you on that one, mate. We have to transit about 3000km for our Pigs to even fly over mainland Oz and then they have to puddle jump to get to Jakarta. Something tells me the F-35A JSF won't match the Pig for strike range. Jakarta here we don't come, post-JSF. :(
 
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Thomas3    DropBear   12/7/2005 4:38:48 PM
The more I hear about the Australian defence scenario, the more I think range is the ONLY problem: Chinese subs are as quite as a rockband - actually you have to fix them from 500miles to hear yourself thinking (gf0012 will have his comments on that). The Indonesians are all out of elastic for thier fighter airvrafts propulsion and the bow and arrow of New Guinness tribesmen are low on twang - the only problem is to get there and chastise them.
 
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TheArmchairCmd    RE:Gripen/Eurofighter/JSF - Baltics   12/7/2005 5:36:13 PM
Regarding range. NATO fighters in the Baltics operate from Baltic airbases. They just stand ready to scramble and bounce intruders. The Finnes are certainly not afraid of the Russians, and any (public) approachment to NATO is happening because Russia is weak.
 
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