Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Saudi Arabia Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.
RSAF    11/10/2003 6:26:10 PM
I dont post here but read alot, my ipression is that this board has a ton of great information but also a sizabale amount of misinformation.One post in particular "got my dander up":the one about the RSAF paper tiger.Lets mith-bust shall we?: (please excuse my spelling and grammer,English is a third language to me) First of all regarding the lack of capable saudi air craft maintenace personnel,not only is this not true but it is ridiculas.My father is a mechanical engineer employed by Al-Salaam Aircraft Company, LTD.Here is a little info on this Saudi company: Al Salam is a joint venture company established under the auspices of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's Ministry of Defense and Aviation Economic Offset Program. The company was established as a strategic resource for the Kingdom to provide self-sufficiency in the field of aircraft maintenance and modification through technology transfer and development of Saudi nationals. The Al Salam partners selected to implement this strategic resource are as follows: Saudi Arabian Airlines (SAUDIA) 25% Saudi Advanced Industries Company (SAIC) 10% Gulf Investment Corporation (GIC) 10% National Industrialization Company (NIC) 5% Boeing Industrial Technology Group (BITG) 50% Al Salam AirCraft Co. Ltd. is a Saudi partnership established in 1988 with an initial capital investment of $45 million. The partners include BOEING (50%), SAUDIA (25%), SAIC (10%), Gulf Investment (10%) and NIC (5%). The company established a core capability that enables it to perform heavy maintenance and modification on both military and civil aircraft. On the civil side, Al Salam has been performing various types of maintenance tasks including D-Checks. On the military side, it can perform any maintenance work up to and including Programmed Depot Maintenance (PDM). These activities are supported by fully equipped backshops and Non-Destructive Testing laboratory along with an advance MIS system in State-of-the-art facilities. *********Company capabilities have been validated by FAA and PCA certification********, approved as a military contractor and as a subcontractor to major UK Aerospace company and major USA aircrfat company. Since 1993, Al Salam performed D-Checks and modification on L1011, B747, B737, B707 and BELL 406 Helicopter.Not to mension the maintinance of the F-15's and other military aircraft. The employees of this company have been trained well and are expirienced.recentely a program initiated by the Saudi Defence Ministry labelled "Al Yammamah" was completed sucessfully.17 F-15 jets were completely dis-assembeled and then re-assembeled by three 100% Saudi teams!! The results were perfect.In fact one of the American ex-pats commented that if the parts were available the three teams in question would be able to build f-15's in our facilities. Another program,which i will not go into detail about, will deal with upgrading the f-5's provided that the ALY deal goes through. Now about the RSAF it self,not only do we have a beautiful combination of American and British equipment but our pilots have shown they know how to use it.Iraqi and Iranian planes have been shot down time and again by the Saud Eagles.In fact the ONLY double kill in the second gulf war was by a Saudi Pilot who shot down two Iraqi jets as well as striking a ground anti-air target. I have over 50 hours of Saudi military aviation on tape,if i ever convert it to a PC friendly format i will be sure to post it here.The Green Knights are the demo team(they fly Hawks) and i have colected most of theyr taped shows.If the site owner would host these clips i would provide them. About the coruption in the hose of Saud,that is one point that I cannot argue with.and yes there are favors being handed out.but to say that test answers are handed out and pilots are being handed multi million jets just because of a last name is truely funny. As for the naval and ground forces,I have no personal knowledge about the naval forces other than what i have heard hear and there,so i cannot contest the original posters "hard facts".The ground forces however are extremely caotic and incapable as far as the main army goes.However the speacial strike forces are another matter completely,but thats another post for another day. Finally to conlcude i would like to say that i am not trying to make out the RSAF as the mightiest fighting force this side of the pond,we do have a long way to go to achive a totally dependant AF.but the misconceptions here needed corecting. Oh yeah one more thing, about the reply about ARAMCO Saudi employees not knowing "how to turn the valves".that was truely funny,my brother is a VP of ARAMCO,and I am currentely in thyr training program.Not only do the Americans have nothing to do with the oil rigs but the are also confined to "paper duty".the only reason they exist is the US pressure.if the Americans were to leave tomorow,nothing would change.And about the Shia being the only
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
patmorin47    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   12/27/2003 1:56:36 PM
My info is dated. 92 93. RSAF trying to launch 8 sorties in morning and 8 in afternoon. Easily had ground abort rate of 50 per cent. Simple stuff pulled circuit breakers, disconnected connectors. american USAF pilots fly as instructors in RSAF AIRCRAFT. On the saudie shootdown you talk about rsaf wingman could been an american pilot. USAF WING will turn and burn each aircraft 3 times a day in wartime. Saudies do not know what a combat quickturn is. Saudie matawaha would great me each day with WOULD YOU LIKE TO DIE TODAY? what a asshole. spend 2 hours setting up equipment to train and the saudies go on prayer, coffe break 5 times a day. nothing gets done unless the americans do it. When the americans were brought back in 92,93. the saudies were lucky if they could fly 2 in the morning, 2 in the afternoon. RSAF is a flying club for the princes, do you think they would risk their life in combat. During gulf one, most rsaf went home. One day saudie hooked up hyd mule to aircraft and hose came off spewing 3000 pd sq inch fluid everywhere. This is a multi thread connector, that you double check. lucky no one was killed that day. read SANDRA MACKEYS, book THE SAUDIES, the chapter on their military is hilarious. When i was there main thought i had was why the young saudies did not rise up and over throw that corrupt govt. Who would be willing to fight and die for those corrupt assholes. Read baers SLEEPING WITH THE DEVIL. Brit have you ever trained the saudies? I was flight controls and my friend over there was engines, i used to help him as i was so bored, an someone to talk to. Can not post what he had to say would like to. And it does not matter, who would the SAUDIES fight on their own. No one. It is a jobs program for the brits and the americans. Next time ill tell you how i really feel.
Quote    Reply

evlstu    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   12/28/2003 12:26:19 AM
Well, it does help to explain why the arabs can't beat the Israelis. Come to think of it when was the last time an arab army beat a nonarab army (the Turks don't count for this question)?
Quote    Reply

Ex-pat2    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   12/29/2003 12:54:08 PM
Well, even taking in the Turks.....remember who organized and led them. The best part of the Lawrence of Arabia movie was at the end when the Arabs started arguing over who owned the telephone company, water, electricity, and fire department. Without expatriate expertise in Saudi today you would see the very same thing. Sadly this also includes SaudiAramco - which we would probably have to send in troops to keep the oil flowing. ....and of course a follow-on contract for Halliburton.
Quote    Reply

Savant    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   12/5/2004 5:04:34 PM
Afraid Im going to have to disagree with you RSAF. You left a few things out. While I can appreciate that you are probably recieving reports from home or from work associates, I would have to say they are a bit jaded. Lets talk about the Saudi-ization plan, and how Al Salam is an Saudi owned company, so its no wonder they beat out foreign competitors. Only one problem. Saudi-ization doesnt work, because the Saudis are inherently lazy and under-trained to do the needed work. Hey, sorry but I call a spade a spade. I have worked a couple of contracts in Arabia, one during Gulf War 1 for Lear and the next being shortly post 9/11 and I was amazed at how downhill the RSAF had gone. I worked both contracts at Kang Fahad A.F.B. Taif close to the Al Hadda mountain range, one of the most beautiful spots in Arabia. My second contract I worked as a ParaRescue/PJ Instructor for the 9th Helicopter Flying Wing. I was contracted thru Agusta Helicopter and worked quite a bit with Bell Helicopter at the same base. Al Salam took over the contract from Agusta and won some other contracts as well. When they took over these contracts they re-hired the same american and philipino civilian contractors that where working there before. So to say Saudias are doing the work is completely mis-leading number one. Number 2: The RSAF is in a shambles. Try to think of it this way. The war fighting capabilities of the RSAF are directly proportionate to the number of american and british contractors that work there, or where working there. Why are there less foreign contractors there now? You know the answer RSAF...Saudization Plan. You sound like the Saudi diplodunks promoting how great it is working there, where as in reality, the whole program is a farce. My last contract I arrived Jan. 02 just after 9/11 and was shocked at what I saw compared to 91 when I had left after GW1. F-5s and F-15s mostly in shambles and being robbed for parts. Many parked on the tarmac in a state of total dis-repair and many with missing parts. Why were they being robbed for parts? Becuase thier credit line with MD (McDonnel Douglas) and many other aircraft parts suppliers are maxed out. They are notting getting the credit they used to, and are short of money for the parts. I was also told that the parts suppliers who also supplied the contact repair personnel were not exactly happy about being booted out of thier contracts either, and arent in any big hurry to ship parts there. This is verbatem info I recieved from a skeleton crew of american aircraft repair techs, brought in by Al Salam. Evidenced and witnessed by moi.... F-5s on the ramp with no tires. Aircraft that had tires were so threadbare they would only fly them once or twice a week. The next 10 months I was there I only saw two F-15s fly once!! The base looks like its in mothballs, a deserted ghost-town. Except for alot of troops marching around, then hiding Allah knows where during the day. The only time I would see to many of them is when they would come out to the base commanders cheering rallies supporting the downing of the twin towers. Yes, our allies hard to believe. It was about that time I knew these would probably be my last days in Arabia. The best aircraft on the base where our Helos, UH-1s(bell 212`s) and being upgraded to 412`s (better avionics package & exterior winch for rescue) and even these spent most of thier time downed. The missions we did fly were rarely more than 10 miles from the base!! When I questioned pilots why, I usually recieved the same answer. We dont want to get lost. Huh??? What stuck me as funny was how these pilots always seemed so arrogant and sometimes indigent with me. We could start a whole other thread on the in-correct attitudes and Arab mentality when it comes to Arab military command. The commanders thrive on fear and putting that into the troops.... well, I dont want to go off on a side rant, but believe me, it takes some getting used to and adjusting to work with Arab officers on a daily basis. By the way, the BA compound had the best damn homeade dark beer I ever tasted. Crafty guys....
Quote    Reply

Savant    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   12/6/2004 7:52:49 PM
eehhhh, hehe....moderator, please remove the last line from that post. about the beer....dont want to get those guys in trouble.
Quote    Reply

Desertmole    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   1/29/2005 7:18:17 AM
Being a veteran ex-pat from Saudi, I can say they do have problems getting the Saudis to take care of their equipment, and I was working with the only force truly capable of fighting (the National Guard). RSAF was also reported to have the highest accident rate of all Air Forces for 2003. They lost a total of 9 aircraft. Now, I travelled the Riyadh-Dammam Highway frequently, and often started seeing aricraft (usually Tornados) about 100 km out. So goes the idea that they stay within 10 miles of the airfield. BTW, I made the best white wine on the Hash!
Quote    Reply

hkorna    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   4/12/2005 9:46:29 AM
the last time arabs armies won over no arab armies was in 1973 :) we celebrate it every year in egypt, u are most welcome to attend, the call it Youm Kibur in Isreal :)
Quote    Reply

giblets    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   4/12/2005 10:48:30 AM
I trust it was SH3 and not the third herd desert mole!
Quote    Reply

Desertmole    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   4/13/2005 1:17:57 AM
Of course! SH3 was the best of the three hashes in Riyadh. I logged over 225 runs and about 30 hares during my time there. Never hashed with the other hashes in Saudi, but had a few very good memories of the Black Hash in Bahrain.
Quote    Reply

giblets    RE:Misconceptions about the Royal Saudi Air Force as well as musings.   4/21/2005 8:02:32 AM
Got my 50 with SH3 years ago, when they were still at about 750 runs! Dad was a JM, and mum first female comittee member lol.
Quote    Reply
1 2