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Subject: French artillery on top: AUF2 on procurement
french stratege    8/22/2004 10:53:08 AM
Not bad the AUF2 What do you think with Pelican shell, Bonus or Ogre.
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neutralizer    RE:French artillery on top: AUF2 on procurement   8/26/2004 5:55:16 AM
My understanding is that the shells conform to the JBMOU so they should be usuable from any other conforming gun. Whether they are 'good' price-performance wise is probably best measured by their success in competitive tenders run by countries operating a 'level playing field' procurement process. There aren't that many so we know who to watch. As for the gun, well any gun mounted on a tank chassis starts well behind on points, not a happy experience for the crew and a real pain to re-arm or move ammo varieties around. Note in takes AUF 20 minutes to do a full ammo load, compare this with PzH2000 or AS90. Max range is determined by ammo so that's not really relevant, all round traverse available as it should be, max rate of fire is competitive, burst rate on the slow side compared to PzH2000 and AS90. It has two novel features, first is an automated mechanism for handling, counting and loading modular charges. Second is its breech, a screw type (new design) but with a primer magazine. Of course primer mags were first introduced with FH70 years ago, and both UK and Germany use sliding block breeches, its interesting to conjecture why France didn't go this way, perhaps they didn't want to pay royalties, perhaps they couldn't produce a satisfactory design. It would be odd if it was voluntary because screw breeches use more turret space.
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bunglefoot    RE:French artillery on top: AUF2 on procurement   10/14/2004 12:22:29 PM
That looks like a pretty impressive piece of equipment. I wonder if Canada would think about converting our now useless leopard 1's into some sort of useful artillery with a package similar to that. Even if it has a long reload time, it would still be a useful thing to have around. (more useful anyway than leopard 1's)
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neutralizer    RE:French artillery on top: AUF2 on procurement   10/15/2004 6:29:51 AM
What's impressive about it? Why compare it to a tank? (they're chalk and chease).
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bunglefoot    RE:French artillery on top: AUF2 on procurement   10/18/2004 7:49:10 PM
It is impressive because it has decent firepower/range etc, and it makes use of an existing platform, which reduces cost to buy and more importantly cost to support. Not easy to do when the platform was not designed with this in mind.
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doggtag    making use of existing platforms   10/18/2004 8:31:18 PM
The Italian Palmaria 155mm turret, the UK AS90 155mm turret, the Czech Zuzana 152mm turret, and the South African T6 155mm turret: these also are designed to be fitted to various tank hulls. Naturally, you don't want to fit any turret that grossly unbalances the hull (including its travelling performances). For some nations, buying only the turret and corresponding logistics/maintenance equipments and modifying older MBT hulls is still cheaper than buying entire new-build SP guns (both chassis and turret) outright. Besides, the buying nation most likely has already invested considerably into the logistics chain for the maintenance of hull and chassis components of their current fleet, so it is even more prohibitive for some of them to completely rewrite their logistics network for an entirely new chassis/hull system. The same can be said for the large variety of turrets available for APCs and IFVs, as well as modified MBT turrets being swapped into older hulls. If the running gear/chassis/hull is still sound and has life left in it, no point in getting rid of it when all you need is new guns that can be achieved with a turret swap (and minor hull modifications to support it.) The "after-market turret sales" area of the defense industry is a very lucrative market, and many companies exploit this fact, including GIAT with their AUF 155mm turret and several other designs. .
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neutralizer    RE:making use of existing platforms   10/19/2004 8:30:55 AM
being pedantic again, the AS90 turret was not designed for use on any hull, but it is derived from a turret design that was. The significance is the challenge of loading ammo into the turret. If you don't have an access door in the hull like proper SP guns they you either need some sort of external transfer arm like the unlamented SP70 or you have to use the AUF2 approach of driving a truck up to the rear and loading from there, (we'll forget breeding very big soldiers able to routinely lift 45 kg shells from the ground to above their heads). Transfer arms introduce a single point failure node into the system (not to mention the speed at which they work), parking trucks up to guns in action introduces unwanted practical problems on the gun position (but is quite OK for parade ground armies), which don't exist when you can put shells thru the hull door where a loader lifts them straight onto the loading tray, very simple when you're firing sustained at 2 rds/min.
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