Can MLRS replaced Gun Artilery ?

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Subject: Can MLRS replaced Gun Artilery ?
murabit821 5/12/2007 6:23:41 PM

What you mean , when gun artilery be replaced with MLRS in Slovakia we have MLRS which can fire both 122mm and 227 rockets is lookd like HIMARS but you can install MLRS pod with one ATACMS or 6x 227mm or 122mm pod with 28 rockets, also new kind of 122mm rocket was purchase with GPS guide system that this system can fire ATACMS , 227mm rockets, 122mm rockets and guided 122mm rockets

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murabit821 9/18/2007 6:52:54 AM

thanks for many new information for me

i open this topic ,because i want try understand why Slovakian armed forces have more rocket launchers than tube artilery

ZUZANA SP have capability time on target , but Slovakian MLRS dont have (time for fire 28 rocket is 18-22 s and this rocket dont have speed control )
this MLRS can probably fire on 28 diferent targets with various range within this 22s (whit 122mm GPS guided rockets) that is for gun/howitzer impossible.

I never heard about 155mm howitzer firing on infantry at 200m and never heard any slovakian artilery officer speak about firing on 200m to company or any other target , but i heard about training direct fire on moving marker (on rails) in range 1000m (with 152mm DANA) and than quickly retreat

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B.Smitty 9/18/2007 8:39:52 AM

Attacking hard targets. Buildings ans common bunkers or entrenchments require a projectile/fuze that will enter the structure. None of the MLRS or other rocket ammo available to me a decade ago was suitable for this. The submunition distribution type and HE rocket projectiles were of little real value against a common reinforced concrete building or a properly built timber, steel, & earth bunker. Common cannon HE projectiles with the fuse set to delay are fairly usefull vs such targets. PGM cannon projectiles even more so. There may be rocket projectiles for MLRS that now have decent penetrating ability, and which are available. If so I'd like a update on them.

GMLRS Unitary (video) has been effective in Iraq in this capacity.

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Shooter2K 10/15/2007 4:22:42 PM

It is certanly possable for any of a number of Arty rockets to be equiped with a suitable war head to do this. The MLRS can tote 203MM howizer shells to any point it can reach and RAYO was designed with the idea of using 155MM shells as the war head to save on R&D cost!

I personaly belive that the revolution in presigion fire has made the big gun obsolite! The RAYO missile can do anything the 155MM gun can and for much less weight per engagement. (Given how few engagements there are these days!)

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Jeff_F_F It's not just all about smashing stuff 10/15/2007 9:07:36 PM

I just think of building a rapid smoke screen to support a breaching operation or such. I suppose the fire direction computer could determine the precise 3D coordinates of each round so they burst in the proper location to set the screen. It would probably be easier for the FDC, but it seems like technological overkill though...

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Carl S 10/16/2007 6:45:13 AM

I never heard about 155mm howitzer firing on infantry at 200m and never heard any slovakian artilery officer speak about firing on 200m to company or any other target , but i heard about training direct fire on moving marker (on rails) in range 1000m (with 152mm DANA) and than quickly retreat "

200 meters is uncomfotablly close for 155 projectiles. For direct fires we used a safety range of 800 meters. That placed the odds of fragging the crew extrodinarilly low.

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neutralizer 10/16/2007 8:12:03 AM

It's the old maxim - 'big threat big risk, low threat low risk', in other works as far as closeness goes it depends on the alternative! Not much point in being overun because you didn't want the risk of your own arty fire real close. In direct fire the risks are actually quite small, the risk is probably from only one or large two pieces of metal from the shell's baseplate, and these can go a long way, 800m is a reasonable number.

Using an 8" shell as a rkt warhead is one of the silliest ideas I've heard in ages. Arty shells are designed to withstand the stresses of rapid acceleration and spinning, an environment that doesn't exist with rockets, it means that rockets can have a warhead design that is optimised for effects at the target without worrying too much about a design to withstand the rigours of firing.

I was in the St Petersburg Museum of Artillery, Engineers and Signals a few weeks ago. On show was a cut-away MLR 220 mm rocket, the anti-armour submunitions were about 10 cm long and 5 cm diameter. There were also three cutaway models of warheads for this rocket, in addition to the anti armour one there was one with 5 or 6 unitary munitions, each holding about 10kg of HE on my estimate, the third contained quite a lot of large wedge shaped sub-munitions but it wasn't clear what their function was. Incidentally the 300mm MLR has some 4 different warheads with various sub-munitions.

There were also some other items that don't appear in the reference books, including the first MRLs and the precursor rkt prototypes from the 1920s and 30s. However my favourite is the 1950s 420mm smoothebore gun on an SP carriage, now that's heavy artillery.

Incidentally GMLRS has been used in Afghanisatan, UK fired their first one there at 1025 hrs, Sunday 15 Juky 2007.

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Carl S 10/16/2007 8:51:40 PM

"In direct fire the risks are actually quite small, the risk is probably from only one or large two pieces of metal from the shell's baseplate, and these can go a long way, 800m is a reasonable number."

Back in the 1980s we had a Marine hit in the chest by a base plug. No penetration of the flack jacket. Just shattered his ribs and turned the heart/lung tissue into a large blood clot. Cant recall th actual range, other than under 600 meters.

?the third contained quite a lot of large wedge shaped sub-munitions but it wasn't clear what their function was.?

Sounds like a smoke generating submunition. Unfortunatly I did not keep the refrence for that ammo family.

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