"Warhammer (and Mr No Name before you): judging by how we have treated our own kind in the early days of colonialism and exploration, it is quite capable that WE may one day be the conquering ETs assaulting another tiny blue planet. Just because we send our brightest explorers on the quest to discover new worlds, that doesn't mean the political bigshots back home won't see it as one more new world to exploit. Obviously, we humans would be willing to conquer and colonize because we may believe it is our "god given right", so why is it so hard to imagine another species of the stars would be any different in ideology?" Why are you pointing me out? I have no problem imagiing us doing this, I was just refuting all of (blank's) bad points.

'Twas nothing personal: I was only addressing the latest contributors....

There is enough data on the UFO phenomenon to say with a good probability that they are already here. As to why they're here it's very difficult to say. All of this is very wierd.. There are many theories. I have my own. One thing's for sure it's not easy to figure out..

Good point, Hellfire. Conspiracies aside, we need only look at certain examples in our world's history (of humanity) to see that certainly there could be an outside influence shaping/guiding us for some as-yet misunderstood destiny. Besides, we didn't gain our intelligence and learn to create, build, and invent from black monoliths..

It is very difficult to make some sense of the UFO phenomenon, mainly because anything and everything is possible. If these aliens or whatever you want to call them have a significant advance on us, you can't reject any possibility. You can't say, no they can't do this, they can't do that, etc.. It also holds true for their motivations. You can't say they wouldn't do this they wouldn't do that.. So it is very hard first of all to evaluate the quality of some data - abduction experiences for instance -, and second to draw a conclusion. As for what you said, it's a good example of the limitation of science. If they're here, they may have done just about anything. They may even have created us. But since there is very little data on that it's virtually impossible to know. So we may never find the answer to all of this. We can only hope that they don't want us bad...

Well, if some alien race has been clandestinely guiding mankind for thousands of years, at least that goes a long way to decreasing the chance of an alien invasion in the near future. If the race that is guiding us wanted to invade, they would have done it from the start. Or maybe they are like the Predator and want a decent opponent. Or, maybe they just want some slaves who know how to tie their own shoes. Or, what if it is like what happened at the end of the B5 series? Earth goes down the crapper and the rest of the stellar neighborhood is trying to bring us back to a point where we can rejoin them. There have been prophecies in the the past by nostadamus saying stuff about how aliens will come to earth in our greatest hour of need(namely a nuclear war). And then look at the bible. If it isn't made up, and if there isn't really a omnipotent god out there who made it, what if an alien race played the parts of god in it? Revalation would go a long way to describe what would happen when the earth and mankind get themselves into serious trouble. I think the idea that aliens have been here all along is far more interesting than aliens coming and trying to take over.

>> I think the idea that aliens have been here all along is far more interesting than aliens coming and trying to take over. The 2 can be true. Consider the following theory.. First of all think about the fermi paradox. The fermi paradox is the fact that the Earth has never been colonized. If ETs are here, they or other species must have been here in the past, and could have colonized the Earth. Since this has not happened, UFOs can't be of ET origin. That's the conclusion that "skeptics" get to and it makes sense. So how can we reconcile the fact that the Earth has never been colonized in 4+ billion years, and the fact that ETs seem to be here? The only solution that I can think of is that species are PREVENTED from colonizing other planets. This suggest that there is an some form of order out there. People don't do whatever they want. The problem is that we humans WANT to colonize other planets. We spend an awful lot of ressources for space exploration. So where do we go like this.. There's some form of order out there which has been preventing the colonization of the galaxy for BILLIONS of years, and WE want to do it. Little conflict of interest here.. So what are they gonna do? are they going to let us fvck up what they've been doing for billions of years, or are they going to take control here.. by will or by force.. The problem is that the Fermi paradox is not a small problem, but a very big one. It has to be explained one way or another..

Fermi paradox aside, most likely, any highly advanced "cosmic" influence also will have highly evolved and different ethical and moral issues they've achieved concerning such things as colonization: if they've put pettiness aside and abandoned aggressive, warlike behavior, then most likely they aren't concerned with subjugating every new race they discover in the cosmos, or rape inhabited worlds for slave labor and natural resources. No offense, but stop thinking like a human. Because most likely, they don't. Don't use Hollywood examples as basis for founding your beliefs as to what aliens will look like and act like, because mostly, those are are "what if" stories written for profit, not practicality. I mentioned on other threads, the quote, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from majic" (Arthur C Clarke), and the "extended" version, "any sufficiently advanced civilization would seem like magic to a lesser society." It is foreseeably quite possible then that aliens/EBEs are indeed what we have, over the millinnia, labeles as "gods, devils, angels, and demons." When mankind was far younger and less scientifically educated and knowledgeable, how then would one go about describing such fanciful technologies and concepts of non-Earth beings and their methods of transport? We often (foolishly) base the requirements for life to evolve solely on the example of how it evolved here... because that is the only example we know. But, we are well aware here of the sherr diversity of biospheres where life can take root: from we higher mammals, to microbes that thrive in sulfur- and methane- laden volcanic vents. So certainly the possibility exists for life to evolve other than what we see as "higher life forms." Again, we should not limit ourselves to "human" thinking, because even our level of comprehension has limitations we refuse to cross in what we can acceptably believe without sufficient cause..

"First of all think about the fermi paradox. The fermi paradox is the fact that the Earth has never been colonized. If ETs are here, they or other species must have been here in the past, and could have colonized the Earth. Since this has not happened, UFOs can't be of ET origin. That's the conclusion that "skeptics" get to and it makes sense." Well first off, we don't know that the earth was never colonized. Humankind could be the product of such a colonization. And, just because they are here now, in no way means that they had to be here in the past, that just makes no sense. Who knows what kinds of laws or systems they might have. Maybe they didn't colonize earth due to some interstellar law, or maybe oxygen just makes them puke? We can't know why they haven't colonized this planet until we meet and talk to them. Given all the unknown factors, there could be a billion reasons why they aren't here.

>> Fermi paradox aside You can't put it aside. It is an important part of the puzzle.. That's the point. As for the aliens "being wise, nice or whatever", it has nothing to do with the fact that they wouldn't have to take control here to prevent us from doing what we don't have the right to do. Maybe they are obliged to take control here, just like other species took control of them before they fvcked up the whole thing. You have to take into account all possibilities, even the worst ones. It's not by paranoia, but because all of this is so serious that you can't afford to reject any possibility just because you don't "want" to face a certain possiblity. This being said, what I said is just one theory..