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Subject: DAGR 70mm Laser Guided Rocket is Hellfire Compatible
reefdiver    3/22/2007 12:02:37 PM
Lockheeds newest announcement about the DAGR 70mm laser guided rocket: http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=18241&rsbci=0&fti=111&ti=0&sc=400 I especially like that the DAGR is Hellfire compatible, as it will make for rapid deployment. Apaches and Cobras would of course like this, but it should be great on Predator-A's, and I would expect to see pods on the Reaper if this is ever adopted. Has anyone seen any predictions when this (LM internally funded project) might be available and if the US will adopt it?
 
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Jeff_F_F       3/30/2007 2:24:02 PM
In short, an Apache can now be armed with 76 mini-HELLFIREs.
 
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doggtag       3/30/2007 2:51:31 PM
I wouldn't discredit a 70mm rocket too much: if they're equipped with the heaviest warloads of the series (6-7kg), they'll have just as much explosive throw-weight as a TOW, just not the same diameter. In a shaped charge, diameter matters. But these are more for general purpose (precision) fire support, not dedicated anti-armor work.
 
My guess would be the US will opt for a warhead in the neighborhood of 5kg (to allow for a reasonable-enough range), which should be adequate for any number of targets (walls, huts, houses, building rooms, cars, trucks, technicals, gun positions, terror boats and other small water craft, even a lot of light/medium AFVs).
A Kiowa Scout, AH-6,  or one of those new ARH's would benefit immensely from this, as it could carry 8 or more (can we put them in those 7-round pods?), which could eliminate a lot of the calls they have to relay to other aircraft for precision fire support.
 
Make the equivalent of a modern-day Mighty Mouse (those 2.75inch FFARs carried by F-86Ds and F-94s), about 4 feet long, and even ground vehicles could carry large-capacity short-range pods (maybe one of those 19-round pods, firing to 2-3km). A Bradley with 19 rounds (plus reloads) of precision 5kg warheads could offer quite a bit of firepower.
Should even fit a Stryker quite nicely (a 25mm/12.7mm ACSW and a 19-round pod instead of the twin TOW system).
 
I like the idea that the DAGR can is Hellfire compatible.
We're finally heading in the right direction here: aircraft have used common pylons that can mount all kinds of weapons for decades.
Now we just need to adopt a Common Launcher InterFace System  (CLIFS?) that can easily install on ground vehicles, allowing any number of guided rockets or missiles to be employed (Hellfire, DAGR, Javelin, TOW, CKEM, Spike, etc) as operations dictate.
 
 
 
 
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reefdiver       12/15/2007 2:18:51 PM
I see from a sysop post that some 430 racks supporting both Hellfire and DAGR have just been ordered for US helicopters. I assume this was needed to provide the Hellfire control system connections to the 70mm pods. Good to see they're not wasting time deploying this (amazing and deadly) weapon. Gee - will we no longer get to see video of helicopters ripple firing 70mm's?
 
Hopefully the next evolution for the 70mm's will be a small version of the JDAM DAMASK image matching seeker - then you have 4 pods of target, fire and forget (or run away) 70mm weapons. You might be able to pick out 76 targets as fast as you can (good luck finding that many) - not firing until you've picked all of them - and once again ripple off a bunch of 70mm's.   I'm sure it will happen.
 
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Herald12345    kINETIC ENERGY ROCKETS.   12/15/2007 2:38:38 PM
I'm waiting to see if a fastburner 70 mm rocket version comes out of this program that can punch through armor. Then YIKES!

Herald

 
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WarNerd       12/16/2007 3:02:03 AM
I wonder if it would be worth while to develop a 3 round pod for 70mm DAGR's that would have the same external dimensions as a tow missile round and fired using existing TOW launcher?
 
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flamingknives       12/16/2007 2:50:25 PM
Fastburner rocket? Like the CRV-7?
 
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Mechanic       12/16/2007 3:56:45 PM

I wonder if it would be worth while to develop a 3 round pod for 70mm DAGR's that would have the same external dimensions as a tow missile round and fired using existing TOW launcher?

As well you could use a stinger launcher for a single missile - both lack laser designator.
 
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flamingknives       12/16/2007 4:17:00 PM
How about a vehicle mount very similar to the M299 launcher that you could attach the existing 4-round DAGR launcher to? I think that has the necessary interfaces (and the pod looks like it has a designator), and you could always fit a Hellfire on it if the situation warrants it.
 
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WarNerd       12/16/2007 5:42:34 PM
The M299 does not have an integral laser designator.  But then, neither do any of the other possible launch system/vehicle ideas that are being tossed around here. 
 
So either the vehicle's fire control system would have to have a laser designator added to it's built in fire control system (the designator is delicate, and needs to be stabilized) or a forward observer deployed with one (which could imply at least a limited indirect fire capability).
 
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Shirrush       12/16/2007 5:44:23 PM
...And there's still the hope that warfare itself will someday price itself out of business.
(sigh!)

 
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