He probably would say that the Israeli's are making themselves look like fools in the global media via use of disproportionate force and unwillingness to see themselves through the eyes of the ROTW. He probably would also say that solving Israeli security concerns by waging a low intensity conflict and siege warfare against an entire groups of people is counter productive to stated Israeli goals.

 

-DA  

I was not thinking of Armenia as a physical card to be played, but more as a cheap means to irritate the Turks.  After all, the easiest way of insulting the Turks is to first disturb their own sense of history.  Of course, if the Turks trample over Armenia, then we can play the 'cry foul' game and so on.  We do not need Armenia to be capable of doing something more than scratching Turkey.

I don't hate Darth.  Hell, I don't even dislike him.  I've served with guys like Darth in both the military and in law enforcement for years.  I've seen the elephant with guys like him, drank copious amounts of beer with them, and our families have socialized together.  I would go to war with him in a heartbeat.  I will stand up for him when I think he is right on a subject, but there are some subjects in which we simply do not agree, and this is one of them (Iran tends to be the other).  I have had this argument with him on Israel before, so I know full well how he feels about our support for the Jewish state.  Darth is a bright guy, so I don't get it how he can be so wrong sometimes (lol).

 

A few points: 

 

1.   Darth made the Avatar and South Africa analogies, so he should held to the fire for them.  No, he did not say "the Israelis are the Navi", but based upon his previous statements and what he has written in this thread I think that it can be inferred that Darth is not terribly sympathetic to the Israel plight. 

2.   I find it almost humorous when someone proclaims that their own views are based on "pure observation and facts" while their opponents' views on the issue are based upon emotion.  This is intellectually dishonest.  I feel that my opinions are based upon pure observation and my understanding of historical facts, but in the end I will have to admit that they are still opinions.

3.   In my mind by not taking sides in the Israeli-Palistinian issue you are siding against Israel.  Bush was criticized when he said something similar to the international community after 9/11, but I think he was dead on.  Islamofascists do not negotiate in good faith.  Concessions and compromises are seen as weaknesses to be exploited later.  This has been proven time and time again, yet the international community seems to hold on to the sentiment that someday the Islamic radicals will one day become a tolerant, peaceful people.  Sure they will..........but only when they are the only people left on Earth.

4.   Please stop with the whining, monotonous "You guys just don't understand," or "(sigh) you guys just don't get it."  We get it, dammit.  We just don't agree with it and are sick of having it jammed down our throats every time Israel defends itself and a terrorist bites the dust or a civilian is killed because the terrorists used them as a human shield.  Like Netanyahu said, "Israel is guilty until proven guilty."  Israel can't win in the international community and everyone know it, so what is the point in celebrating it and jumping on the band wagon declaring how "stone cold stupid" Israel was? (Which kind of discredits the whole 'not taking sides' issue, by the way)

5.   Five of the six boats were boarded and seized without incident and without casualties, so the tactics the Israelis were not completely inappropriate.  The people on those other boats were not willing to throw their lives away and surrendered.  The sixth boat had a large contingent of Islamic radicals that we fully prepared and willing to become martyrs for the cause.  The Israelis were not prepared for this, which was a tactical error, but the tactics used by the Islamic terrorists on the boats were motivated by hatred and evil, and I think Israel's critics are remiss for not mentioning this when they condemn Israel.  I'm just asking for a modicum of balance on the issue.  One of the boats that recently left Ireland for Gaza has already announced that they will surrender peacefully if boarded, which proves that the tactic is sound when deployed against rational people.

6.   Once again I've yet to hear a single cogent explanation as to what Israel could have done differently.  Someone pointed out in this thread that there is not a proven method for disabling a ship without causing casualties.  I think that the crew and many of the passengers of the sixth ship were determined to force a bloody outcome.  Nine people were killed, and while that sure as hell doesn't help Israel's standing in the international community, imagine the outcry if dozens or hundreds would have died had the ship caught fire or collided with an Israeli naval vessel and sank.  Even if they were able to force the ship to stop, there would have been an outcry if dozens of passengers had jumpe

 

 

Didn't Congress and the Obama White House already play then Armenian Genocide card earlier this year?

Maybe this is all just Turkey's way of getting back at the USA?

 

 

Didn't Congress and the Obama White House already play then Armenian Genocide card earlier this year?

Maybe this is all just Turkey's way of getting back at the USA?

 

1)  I dont understand why that can be assumed.  Objective analysis is free of bias, any bias.  There is no indication of how pro/anti/neutral Israel he is.  All that is posted is analysis of the event and the coverage surrounding it.  Likewise with myself.  In fact, with my own personal view I think the Israelis REALLY get a bad rap for a horrible, horrible situation.  Is it Israel's fault that the Palestinians are simply pawns that arab nations use to take pot-shots at Israel?  No, definitely not.  Or is it Israel's fault that the Pali's are simply refugees being used to score cheap political points at the expense of Israeli and Pali lives?  Nope.  They also have every right to defend themselves, and should do so.  Of course, they do have a large share of the reason why they get a bad rap because the Israeli's don't screw around and people find it easier to sympathize with an idiot throwing rocks than at the tank bearing down on him, regardless of the reality behind said image.  Its all about connotation and image management.  Israel is really, really bad at that or just plain doesn't care.  It doesn't do them any favors.