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Subject: Another Israeli Loss
Sambation    1/18/2009 3:24:09 PM
Israel managed, as a friend put it, to snatch defeat out the jaws of victory. What was accomplished? A leg-tripping of Hamas, worth 3 months of waiting time for it to rebuild, replenish, rejuvenate. At best, this was a skin-peel for the terror group. There were very few declared objectives for this "war". Stopping the rockets was the first: Fail. Returning Shalit as secondary: Fail. Stopping weapons smuggling: Fail. And among the unspoken objectives Significantly strengthen Fatah relative Hamas: Fail. There might be only one win here -- a win, once again, for the political echelon: Barak/Labor strengthened their polling numbers, and Livni/Kadima shored up theirs. The country learned much tactically from Leb06; it learned nothing strategically, even less politically. This was just Lebanon v2.1
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HIPAR       1/18/2009 7:09:45 PM
They would have needed to totally reduced Gaza to rubble and killed the vast majority of it's population to accomplish victory over Hamas.  That's clearly not an option open to a 'civilized' nation.
---  CHAS
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Sambation       1/19/2009 7:43:20 AM
Polling indicates that the war might have been a backfire for Labor and Kadmia:
But who knows -- February 11 will tell.
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Ezekiel       1/19/2009 1:14:32 PM
This should be no shock to anyone...I refrained from commenting on the SP about the Gaza fight, precisely b/c I believed this was going to be the end result. AN Israeli leadership that prevents victory, settling for cosmetic victory, short term thinking and attempting to placate an implacable global opinion.
The same people that delivered the failure in Lebanon in 2006, outdid themselves this time around, having victory in their grasp and selling the soldiers, civilians and the rest the world short.
The Kadima party was the party of disengagement, it should not be a surprise that the same people that created Hamastan wouldn't be the ones to destroy it.
I am disgusted...this wasn't a Military is far worse, it is a complete failure of leadership!
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FJV       1/19/2009 1:31:10 PM
This was to be expected.
On the plus side though, it does make it easier for us to deal with Iran.

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battar    Objectively speaking   1/19/2009 3:10:30 PM
Returning Shalit wasn't an objective. It isn't achievable in this kind of conflict, unless you do it the Russian way, i.e, kidnap all members of top Hamas leaders families - especially the children - and hold them to ransom.
Hamas, like Monty Pythons black knight, will declare victory even if you were to blast the Gaza strip to outer space.
You will never get them to stop hating you - its part of their religion. Religious belief beats high explosives hands down.
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Shioc       1/19/2009 8:05:07 PM
Perhaps Isreal should take a page from Sharons playbook.  He started killing the leadership slowly and then
gradually increased the attacks as the rest of the world got bored with the conflict.
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Sambation       1/20/2009 5:42:41 AM
I think Israel is unfortunately very much still playing from Sharon's playbook. They just can't decipher the old man's handwriting too well.
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The Lizard King    War & Peace   1/20/2009 6:47:13 AM
Peace with Palestinians is would be a big blow to Isreal.  See South Africa...
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Vulture       1/20/2009 1:12:32 PM
Why do you assume that the "declared objectives" were the IDF's original objectives?  We all know both sides battle in the media, and wage information warfare.   So how do you know that is what Israel wanted to accomplish.
Do you know what all they actually did in Gaza.  Do we know what the agreement was in Washington over the Egypitan Border?  Do we know what actions Iran took in support of Gaza.  Hell do we even know what restrictions that Saudi Arabia put on their one billion dollars of aid?  If it PA only funds or does Hamas get it directly?
Just like a presidency, the details don't really come  out till afterwards.  And I have a really hard time after Lebanon in '06 to think that the IDF would "fail" in their own goals.

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Shirrush    Whoa there a little...   1/20/2009 2:38:35 PM
This Cast Lead operation had run its course, and could not possibly have been continued
without the landlord's approval. He was absent, waiting to hand his seat to his younger and
handsomer replacement, and the Europeans took charge instead, which is why Israel could not
possibly have been allowed a victory, and why the HaMA"s was rescued at the last minute
from its impending demise. Never mind. Next time around, in a few months time, we'll have
a new elected government instead of the weak caretaker one we have now, and there'll be a possibility
to finish the job of removing this Iranain-Jihadi abscess from our country's bottom.
Falluja 2004 was concluded at the second attempt, wasn't it? The IDF has certainly been reading
 from that very notebook, particularly if you look at the tactics employed, so there's still hope, isn't there?
In the meantime, it has become clear to us that our IDF is a bit less lame than what we suspected it was, that
our civil defense is up to it's task, and that we're a little bit less at each other's throats than what we're accustomed to in ordinary electoral periods.
Plus, we've found Methane, lots of it, offshore Haifa. How convenient!
On a lighter note, it also seems to me that we're going Catholic. Hey, Battar, habibee, have a look
at this, you'll love it!
Now, if you will, let us discuss serious matters.
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