Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Israel Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: And here we go.
00_Chem_AJB    12/27/2008 2:17:42 PM
In responce for Hamas' refuseal to stop their light artillery; rockets and mortar, attacks on Southern Israel, Israel has launched whats been described as one of the largest airstikes to hit Gaza in decades. We knew this would happen sooner or later as Hamas refused to renew the Egyptain brokered ceasefire earlier in the month and continued their artillery attacks, well you reap what you sow. Earlier this week the PM candidates Tzipi Livni and Binyamin Netanyahu both said if elected in Febuary they will remove Hamas from power in Gaza, seems Olmert is beating them to the punch. Well like when Russia crashed through Geogria 6 months ago alot of noise is being made about the dissprotionate force being used by Israel and Isreal thus gets all the immediate blame. Shameful, to people honestly believe that Isreal wnated it this way? It may of been the prefered way as it could lead to an operation to remove Hamas all together, but they were willing to give these people a chance, and another, yet Hamas chose to fight a battle they can not win.
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Ezekiel    blindness   12/27/2008 2:57:50 PM
Until Israel puts troops on the ground to root out the Hamas infrastructure (they are undergound) and takes the phili corridor this is just fencing operations...that looks big in 30 sec news feeds.
Problem is that the same leaders in Israel (Kadima-Labor) today, were the ones who retreated (disengaged) from Gaza. By committing these troops in Gaza and reoccupying the strip , it would essentially be an omission that these unworthy persons are responsible for one of the greatest of strategic blunders in Jewish history and thrown the upcoming elections away... 

Quote    Reply

battar    Couldn't see it coming   12/27/2008 3:50:45 PM
              What exactly was the greatest strategic blunder in Jewish history? Something to do with maintaining control over a Moslem population, was it?
The strategic blunders that most military leaders are guilty of is beginning a military operation without defining clear objectives, and secondly, sticking to the operation after it has become clear that whatever objectives were defined are unachievable. That is the mistake the IDF made in Lebanon, and the US are still making in Iraq. The ideal military operation should be a) define your objective b)achieve your objective and c) then stop.
If Israel believes that this military operation will force Hamas out and replace them with a moderate Fatah leadership, then they also believe in Santa Claus.
If they think that if they bomb Hamas hard enough, then Hamas will squeal for a bilateral cease fire - thats more in line with reality.
On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that Hamas couldn't see this coming, and don't have a counter strategy of their own.
Quote    Reply

00_Chem_AJB    Hamas and the thistle   12/27/2008 6:20:54 PM
Hamas has few real options to respond to any major Israeli strike, Gaza itself is like a prision, surrounded by the Israeli security barrier across the East and North, on the West is the Mediterranean occupied by the Israeli Navy and to the South is a rather hostile Egypt. There only "salvation" lies outside Gaza, prehaps in the Fata controled Westbank where the Palistinians could run riot, thus probably destroying or at least damage their chances of peace with Israel. The Westbank will not be quiet about this but I doubt Fata will fight Israel and those loyal to Hamas enough to actually do the deed have been strangled by the Israeli/Fata Counter-Terrorism opps. Then there is Hezbollah who could also attack from the North; if this happens we very well may see a conflict like that of the Lebanon civil war of the 1980's. While the majority of Lebanese want nothing to do with such a conflict Hezbollah have commited themselves to Israel's destruction and would not care what any one else, bar their masters in Iran, say or do. 
    Hamas and Hezbollah are like creeping thistles (Canada thistles to those from North America) they are potentially dangerous, their roots go deep but also spred out to produce new surface growth and they are ugly. Not to long ago I had to remove a very well established patch from my neighbours garden, 100+ thistles. As they are perenial, if you remove just the surface growth they come back, and quick. As there were srubs in the area I couldn't effectivly poison them, and as they were well established household round-up would have little effect. The only poison I know which kills them for good, when they are at that size: 2-4ft, is a mix of concentrated sodium hydroxide solution and sodium chlorate, however that will kill anything green and poison the soil, my neighbour also has children, chemicals were definatly a no no. So I went in and ripped the thistles out of the soil, trying to remove most of the root as I could. Despite clearing the patch I failed to remove the thistles they grew back from what roots remained, the first surace growth appearing 5 weeks after I cleared the patch.
Quote    Reply

00_Chem_AJB    Hamas and the thistle cont.   12/27/2008 6:36:14 PM
What Israeli is doing with its air strikes is like how I ripped out the thistles, clearing the area while remvoing some of the underound elements, the roots. You do get pricked in the process but once the job is done you are safe untill they grow back or in Hamas' case, regroup. To remove the problem for good you need to dig out the roots, send in ground forces. I didn't pull the roots because I was too lazy and the thistles grew back, I'm going back in the spring to finish the job, while the thistles are growing back they aren't thick enough as to prevent excevation of their roots. Israel should also go in to remove its "root" problem. Bomb them and they just come back, any ceasefire they call for they will break, seend in the army to remove the problem altogether. Likely hood is you will not get everything but what is left can be easily controled.
Quote    Reply

PlatypusMaximus       12/27/2008 8:49:34 PM
Yeahyeah...Waves of fire...rivers of blood...we got the memo already...Tell it to your virgins.

Quote    Reply

timon_phocas       12/27/2008 10:15:24 PM
for what it's worth, I think the Israelis should pound Hamas hard. 
you are going to be excoriated for every injury you cause, and for many you don't
the mainstream media are going to run all sorts of heartbreaking stories of injury and death
it won't matter whether they're true or not 
so you might as well pound Hamas hard, hurt them as much as you can  
Quote    Reply

WarNerd       12/28/2008 3:30:18 AM
The attack on Israel has 2 jaws, Hamas in the south and Hezbollah in the north.  Hamas is mainly a distraction, the real danger is Hezbollah, which is seems to be also getting ready to move.
Quote    Reply

FJV       12/28/2008 7:48:13 AM
Again a propaganda loss for Israel.
I seriously doubt that Israel will go all the way until victory *1), so that after a few years Hamas or Fatah *1) will have rebuild and it all starts over again. The only difference being that Israel will be further weakened due to additional  bad propaganda.

*1) The Palestinian propaganda has ensured that tiny Israel will not have the international backing needed
      to fight this thing towards undisputed victory.
*2) There is really no difference between the 2 in my opinion.
Israel needs to stop rejecting propaganda strategies and be much, much more devious in this.

Quote    Reply