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Subject: Israelian Navy and X MAS
luigi.delta    7/13/2008 3:21:59 AM
Digging out facts about the Italian Naval Special Forces, I have found a couple of solid sources which indicate that the Israelian naval commando force was created and trained by a former X MAS specialist, petty officer Fiorenzo Capriotti. By digging even more I found a book by Capriotti whose title is "A fascist to the Gerusalem Court", which confirmed the whole story. I would like to know if any Israelian on this forum can help me find any confirmation of this story by any Israelian source. I would be very grateful for any help.
 
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luigi.delta       7/21/2008 3:05:37 PM
"Actually, though the main operational use for an Israeli navy  would be as an amphibious arm. Which has been the most notable use of Meditteranean Navies since Themistocles anyway". 

In May I was in Naples and I talked with a US Navy Commander. We were talking just about that. He said: "I've been stuck in your f...country (in Naples it's easy to get upset about things with consequent unavoidable genralizations:)  for 4 years now. Such is the destiny of this small swimming pool around here. Everybody's ready to minimize it in talks but no major naval power in history ever took the risk of not strictly controlling it". I don't remember the exact words but that was the concept.
Funny enough
luigi.delta 
 
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SGTObvious       7/21/2008 3:24:03 PM

I don't think the Israel navy really wants frigates.


I agree.  Israel's surface navy is most likely to be used for coastal defense, and coastal actions against terrorists.  Even in the event of a full on war with the Arabs, there is not much for frigates to do.  Western frigates were built to be part of battle-groups, or escorts, where they need a lot of sea-going ability.  When the Dutch deploy a task force to the Carribean to let Chavez know he can't have Aruba for free, they need frigates.  But raiding the coast of Lebanon?  The little Israeli boats have the same 3" gun that a frigate does and can do the same bombardment work.  The greatest fear is a lucky hit by a missile fired by a terrorist group.  If so, the same missile would put a frigate out of action.  One patrol boat sunk out of dozens is far less of a military (or propaganda) victory than 1 of the handful of theoretical frigates, if it were hit and crippled by a missile.
 
SGTObvious
 
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jastayme3       7/21/2008 4:42:36 PM

"Actually, though the main operational use for an Israeli navy  would be as an amphibious arm. Which has been the most notable use of Meditteranean Navies since Themistocles anyway". 



In May I was in Naples and I talked with a US Navy Commander. We were talking just about that. He said: "I've been stuck in your f...country (in Naples it's easy to get upset about things with consequent unavoidable genralizations:)  for 4 years now. Such is the destiny of this small swimming pool around here. Everybody's ready to minimize it in talks but no major naval power in history ever took the risk of not strictly controlling it". I don't remember the exact words but that was the concept.

Funny enough

luigi.delta 


Naples? Or the Meditteranean? Or simply the swimming pool outside his hotel?
 
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timon_phocas    Naval Strategic Arm?    7/21/2008 5:27:50 PM
>>
get some help from the experienced Italian Navy on how to be a strategic arm and not just an efficient and reliable Coast Guard
<<
 
An Israeli naval strategic arm? Hmm...
Whimsy makes me imagine a scenario... 
OMG! It's the Israeli fleet off of Cony Island! Save the hot dogs! 
 
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jastayme3       7/21/2008 10:59:10 PM

>>

get some help from the experienced Italian Navy on how to be a strategic arm and not just an efficient and reliable Coast Guard

<<

 

An Israeli naval strategic arm? Hmm...


Whimsy makes me imagine a scenario... 

OMG! It's the Israeli fleet off of Cony Island! Save the hot dogs! 


Not unless they're kosher!
 Which reminds me of a story from the War of Independance. There was a group of French monks caught in Jerusalem during the siege. However they lived well as neither the Jews nor the Arabs would plunder them. The reason was that their chief food source was pork.
 
 
 
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luigi.delta       7/22/2008 1:03:20 AM




"Actually, though the main operational use for an Israeli navy  would be as an amphibious arm. Which has been the most notable use of Meditteranean Navies since Themistocles anyway". 







In May I was in Naples and I talked with a US Navy Commander. We were talking just about that. He said: "I've been stuck in your f...country (in Naples it's easy to get upset about things with consequent unavoidable genralizations:)  for 4 years now. Such is the destiny of this small swimming pool around here. Everybody's ready to minimize it in talks but no major naval power in history ever took the risk of not strictly controlling it". I don't remember the exact words but that was the concept.



Funny enough



luigi.delta 







Naples? Or the Meditteranean? Or simply the swimming pool outside his hotel?



I guess the mediterranean
 
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jastayme3       7/22/2008 1:13:20 AM









"Actually, though the main operational use for an Israeli navy  would be as an amphibious arm. Which has been the most notable use of Meditteranean Navies since Themistocles anyway". 















In May I was in Naples and I talked with a US Navy Commander. We were talking just about that. He said: "I've been stuck in your f...country (in Naples it's easy to get upset about things with consequent unavoidable genralizations:)  for 4 years now. Such is the destiny of this small swimming pool around here. Everybody's ready to minimize it in talks but no major naval power in history ever took the risk of not strictly controlling it". I don't remember the exact words but that was the concept.







Funny enough







luigi.delta 

















Naples? Or the Meditteranean? Or simply the swimming pool outside his hotel?








I guess the mediterranean



Before the advent of large sailing vessels, practically no one even thought of complete control of the Med. The
exceptions being Rome and possibly Carthage. However it is true that every major navy except Japan and the Hanse(do they count?) has had something to do with the Meditteranean.

 
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SGTObvious       7/22/2008 9:22:34 AM

OMG! It's the Israeli fleet off of Cony Island! Save the hot dogs! 


They'll only be after the kosher ones.
Coney Island's beloved Nathan's Hot Dogs are safe.
 
SGTObvious
 
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Herald12345    The Mediterranean is the cradle of seapower.   7/22/2008 12:53:35 PM
The Persian/Greek Wars show you what loss of the seas does to you. You get Greeks bearing sharp pointy gifts.
 
"The decision in full accord with Mrs. Sereni is to develop the Assault branch of the Israelian Navy. Two men are contacted by the Commander Calosi, head of the Italian Navy Secret Service: The Captain of the naval engineers Nino Buttazzoni, and Petty officer Fiorenzo Capriotti. The first one served in the X MAS after the creation of the Salò Republic. The second was captured by the enemy during the failed attack in Malta the port  on the 26th of July 1941. He had been prisoner in England, Scotland and finally in the Hawaii islands."
 
Do you have any information about when Petty Officer Capriotti was in Hawaii?

The timing would be significant as it could be coincident as to when the PacFLT opened its underwater demolition swimmer school.
 
That would be the mid to later half of 1942.
 
Curious.
 
Herald
 
 
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luigi.delta       7/22/2008 1:40:28 PM
Herald,
 
according to my sources, Fiorenzo Capriotti was in Missouri up to the end of 1942. He was declared a "non cooperating Italian prisoner" and sent in Hawaii after that. As for the cooperation of the Italians to help starting with what would then become the US Navy Seals, months ago I put my eyes on a declassified document of the OSS somewhere on the net. I lost its traces, but I will have no peace until I find it again.
Here is a picture of petty officer Capriotti with some of his Israeli "grandsons" of the 13th naval commando flottilla.
respectfully
luigi.delta
 
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