Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Israel Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Message to Herald 12345
2 Eagle    1/25/2008 2:42:21 PM
I tried to answer you using the same thread but could not do so. I would like continue our discussion.
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
Herald12345       1/27/2008 12:48:27 PM



Is in assuming that the "Israel lobby" is a monolith, is in assuming that people who  are Jewish-American behave any differently than anybody else. "Insert name here-American [ever hear of the "Irish lobby" or of the efforts of the Kennedys to advance Irish interests sans American interests with the United Kingdom?]

Maybe you should look at the Saudi lobby or the PRC bandit lobby for a balanced political comparison of influence?

Maybe you should look at French and British spying against the United States?

You have no case.

You let your emotions cloud your judgment instead of correctly assessing the exact truth and weighing the known facts in evidence..

You still are expected to apologize

Now you owe two.

One to Shirrush for imputing motives and viewpoints to him that are not at variance to a rational Human being.

And one to me for attempting to take me for a fool.

I know a hawk from a handsaw; if you get my drift.

Herald

Herald..I don't understand  the " hawk/handsaw" bit.
Anyway, I do have a question for you...et al...Why would Mersheimer and Walt write an article that would destroy their credibility and careers? Where's the logic?

Meanwhile, I'm not running away. I'm perusing the article by the above authors. I have printed out 40 pgs. to study for a reply and, irregardless of what you may think my comments will be, as they have been, honest. It's going to take some time sionce it leads to other writers, like Dershowitz, et al. At any rate, if I leave now it will just speed up your Alzheimers and you don't need that.


Like most academics those two were PAID on commission to write the study. Find out WHO funded them. The first rule to examine bias in research, is "who funded these clowns"?

Don't know Hamlet at all? Not only a bigot, but a poorly educated one; I thought my reference would zing by you.

As for Alzheimers, entropy kills everybody. Perhaps you would like to match wits with a peer, though, since my decaying mental acuity is beneath yours.

May I suggest this scholar;

http://www.partypro.com/mm_PARTYPRO_/Images/444.JPG">


Herald
 
Quote    Reply

2 Eagle       1/27/2008 2:40:23 PM








Dershowitz's Response to Walt & Mearsheimer








Professor Alan Dershowitz has posted on the Harvard Kennedy School of Government website his 45-page (with 157 footnotes) response to the Walt & Mearsheimer paper on the ?Israel Lobby.? In his response, Dershowitz expressly questions their motive:






 






[A]s I will show, this study is so filled with distortions, so empty of originality or new evidence, so tendentious in its tone, so lacking in nuance and balance, so unscholarly in its approach, so riddled with obvious factual errors that could easily have been checked (but obviously were not), and so dependent on biased, extremist and anti-American sources, as to raise the question of motive: what would motivate two well recognized academics to depart so grossly from their usual standards of academic writing and research in order to produce a ?study paper? that contributes so little to the existing scholarship while being so susceptible to misuse? [Page 6].

 




 




 





 




 




 




Dershowitz repeats the question again 38 pages later, at the end of his paper, but does not answer it. After summarizing some of the more egregious factual mistakes and easily refutable distortions that even a serious student, much less a scholar, would never make, Dershowitz leaves it at this: ?I simply do not understand, what is the motive?? (emphasis in original).

 




 




 




 




Perhaps, since Walt & Mearsheimer?s paper makes the same argument, in the same tone, with the same subtlety as such prior scholars as Charles Lindbergh (here), Louis Farrakhan (here) and David Duke (here), Dershowitz?s questions are simply rhetorical. 




Or perhaps the failure to provide what, by the end of the paper, is an obvious answer is simply Dershowitz?s attempt to comply with the new Harvard Kennedy School ?Guidelines for Submitting Responses to KSG Faculty Research Working Papers? (there do not appear to be any Guidelines for posting the ?research working papers? themselves):








Full-time Harvard University faculty members may submit a response to a KSG faculty research working paper. To be eligible for posting on this website, all response papers must be academic in form and content, with references and footnotes as appropriate, must respond directly to the intellectual ideas and evidence presented in the original working paper, and must avoid ad hominem critiques.





 




 





By

 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    Blunt reply.   1/27/2008 2:53:34 PM
If you don't even do the basic research properly  to sustain an assertion, why should I respect your opinions on anything?

My country right or wrong leads to disaster.

My country doing things the right way, leads to success.

If you want Stephen Decatur, sorry, he's dead. I much prefer Raymond Ames Spruance.

 A man's judgment is best when he can forget himself and any reputation he may have acquired and can concentrate wholly on making the right decisions.

Do you understand? Of course not.

Herald



 
Quote    Reply

Ezekiel    un-american   1/27/2008 3:43:34 PM



You know...I've read and read until I'm tired of it. I really don't want to bother with this. It isn't worth it. It's too much like work. Let me just say that I have considered many of the points made by M/W and I agree with much of it. I think they may have written the article as a wake up call to apathetic, or politically laid back Americans, or those who do not want to be labeled antisemitic, or just prefer the sidelines and want someone else to fight their battles for them. Perhaps they thought of it as patriotic.

 

Think of me what you want.

 Bear in mind that if Israel falls you will again be looking for refuge in a country  that you are speaking shabbily of. so it would behoove you to leave some friends behind, for those of you who are Israelis and for those who are not, think about them.  A fine old saying used to be, "My country, right or wrong". You, Herald, have changed that to "only if you are right".

 

If you want me to leave I will certainly do so. If you want me to stay and continue squeezing your tes--s, I'll do that too, because, in a way that is fun and it keeps the gray flexing. I just don't want it to become "work".

Now you know where I'm coming from, as you so gently put it. 


 


Your lack of intellectual rigour shines through... without this emotional attachment to the truth, your knowledge will be governed by nothing more then what you think the truth ought to be, you'll pick up a book, like the sound off its argument and then pawn it off in haste in order to feel the pride of having a conviction, even it is empty, stale and mediocre at best. The truth, the justice that must be found in every human context  is an endless quest that demands all one's energy both emotional and mental. But it first must start for a desire to find it, this desire, in my opinion  personifies human dignity. your inability to construct your opinion is not really my problem, the issue at least as it seems to me is the demeaner in which you peddle your grosse distortions and petty discourse.

The fact that you hold the Walt/mearsheimer protocols as appropriatly expressing what the problems are today in regards to US foreign policy is obtuse when it is actually the US that is considered by militant Islam as the "great satan" and Israel is relegated to the "little satan". Meaning with or without US support for Israel, the Islamists will try repeat performances of 9/11because it is western culture that they despise.  And even if the American-Jew do exert disproportionately their legitimate political muscle within the AMerican political system is that bad????? when one considers that American Jews have at the same time contributed disproportionately to the US throughout its history. And what is it that those pernicious, scheming jews are really attempting to influence; is it more capitalism or more socialism, is it the strengthening of bonds between the USA and Israel. Israel mind you, is the only democratic island in a region of dictatorship/ religous fundamentalism. Is it that they are Jews, that they have again shown themselves to be a capable and enterprising group bearing the sin of success, turning it into a 'jew success' and couldn't possible be for the good of America.

In poll after poll conducted within Israel it consistently shows Israel's citizens to be the US's most enduring and ardent supporter, and no fair weathered friend. But you in your deluded pax romana nationalism twist this support into a friendship that has been bought and payed for, and any Israel that makes a peep about a nuclear Iran or a US sponsored renergized (doomed) two state solution is an ingrate that will be subjected to the facile insult that every big nation in history makes to a smaller nation...I am big & powerful and you are small and won't survive without us. Your intellectual depravity sinks even lower in how you address Herald who sanely disagrees with your impotent assertions and juvenile patriotism, when you foolishly cast him to be un-american....truth be told the only one on this thread that has shown himself to be un-american is you.

 
Quote    Reply

2 Eagle       1/28/2008 11:08:36 AM







You know...I've read and read until I'm tired of it. I really don't want to bother with this. It isn't worth it. It's too much like work. Let me just say that I have considered many of the points made by M/W and I agree with much of it. I think they may have written the article as a wake up call to apathetic, or politically laid back Americans, or those who do not want to be labeled antisemitic, or just prefer the sidelines and want someone else to fight their battles for them. Perhaps they thought of it as patriotic.



 



Think of me what you want.



 Bear in mind that if Israel falls you will again be looking for refuge in a country  that you are speaking shabbily of. so it would behoove you to leave some friends behind, for those of you who are Israelis and for those who are not, think about them.  A fine old saying used to be, "My country, right or wrong". You, Herald, have changed that to "only if you are right".



 



If you want me to leave I will certainly do so. If you want me to stay and continue squeezing your tes--s, I'll do that too, because, in a way that is fun and it keeps the gray flexing. I just don't want it to become "work".



Now you know where I'm coming from, as you so gently put it. 




 




Your lack of intellectual rigour shines through... without this emotional attachment to the truth, your knowledge will be governed by nothing more then what you think the truth ought to be, you'll pick up a book, like the sound off its argument and then pawn it off in haste in order to feel the pride of having a conviction, even it is empty, stale and mediocre at best. The truth, the justice that must be found in every human context  is an endless quest that demands all one's energy both emotional and mental. But it first must start for a desire to find it, this desire, in my opinion  personifies human dignity. your inability to construct your opinion is not really my problem, the issue at least as it seems to me is the demeaner in which you peddle your grosse distortions and petty discourse.

The fact that you hold the Walt/mearsheimer protocols as appropriatly expressing what the problems are today in regards to US foreign policy is obtuse when it is actually the US that is considered by militant Islam as the "great satan" and Israel is relegated to the "little satan". Meaning with or without US support for Israel, the Islamists will try repeat performances of 9/11because it is western culture that they despise.  And even if the American-Jew do exert disproportionately their legitimate political muscle within the AMerican political system is that bad????? when one considers that American Jews have at the same time contributed disproportionately to the US throughout its history. And what is it that those pernicious, scheming jews are really attempting to influence; is it more capitalism or more socialism, is it the strengthening of bonds between the USA and Israel. Israel mind you, is the only democratic island in a region of dictatorship/ religous fundamentalism. Is it that they are Jews, that they have again shown themselves to be a capable and enterprising group bearing the sin of success, turning it into a 'jew success' and couldn't possible be for the good of America.

In poll after poll conducted within Israel it consistently shows Israel's citizens to be the US's most enduring and ardent supporter, and no fair weathered friend. But you in your deluded pax romana nationalism twist this support into a friendship that has been bought and payed for, and any Israel that makes a peep about a nuclear Iran or a US sponsored renergized (doomed) two state solution is an ingrate that will be subjected to the facile insult that every big nation in history makes to a smaller nation...I am big & powerful and you are small and won't survive without us. Your intellectual depravity sinks even lower in how you address Herald who sanely disagrees with your impotent assertions and juvenile patriotism, when you foolishly cast him to be un-american....truth be told the only one on this thread that has shown himself to be un-american is you.


"Your lack of intellectual rigour s
 
Quote    Reply

2 Eagle       1/28/2008 11:11:21 AM







Is in assuming that the "Israel lobby" is a monolith, is in assuming that people who  are Jewish-American behave any differently than anybody else. "Insert name here-American [ever hear of the "Irish lobby" or of the efforts of the Kennedys to advance Irish interests sans American interests with the United Kingdom?]

Maybe you should look at the Saudi lobby or the PRC bandit lobby for a balanced political comparison of influence?

Maybe you should look at French and British spying against the United States?

You have no case.

You let your emotions cloud your judgment instead of correctly assessing the exact truth and weighing the known facts in evidence..

You still are expected to apologize

Now you owe two.

One to Shirrush for imputing motives and viewpoints to him that are not at variance to a rational Human being.

And one to me for attempting to take me for a fool.

I know a hawk from a handsaw; if you get my drift.

Herald



Herald..I don't understand  the " hawk/handsaw" bit.
Anyway, I do have a question for you...et al...Why would Mersheimer and Walt write an article that would destroy their credibility and careers? Where's the logic?



Meanwhile, I'm not running away. I'm perusing the article by the above authors. I have printed out 40 pgs. to study for a reply and, irregardless of what you may think my comments will be, as they have been, honest. It's going to take some time sionce it leads to other writers, like Dershowitz, et al. At any rate, if I leave now it will just speed up your Alzheimers and you don't need that.




Like most academics those two were PAID on commission to write the study. Find out WHO funded them. The first rule to examine bias in research, is "who funded these clowns"?

Don't know Hamlet at all? Not only a bigot, but a poorly educated one; I thought my reference would zing by you.

As for Alzheimers, entropy kills everybody. Perhaps you would like to match wits with a peer, though, since my decaying mental acuity is beneath yours.

May I suggest this scholar;

http://www.partypro.com/mm_PARTYPRO_/Images/444.JPG">


Herald

Good of you to send me a photo. Now I can put a face on you when I write.
 
Quote    Reply

2 Eagle       1/28/2008 11:27:06 AM







Is in assuming that the "Israel lobby" is a monolith, is in assuming that people who  are Jewish-American behave any differently than anybody else. "Insert name here-American [ever hear of the "Irish lobby" or of the efforts of the Kennedys to advance Irish interests sans American interests with the United Kingdom?]

Maybe you should look at the Saudi lobby or the PRC bandit lobby for a balanced political comparison of influence?

Maybe you should look at French and British spying against the United States?

You have no case.

You let your emotions cloud your judgment instead of correctly assessing the exact truth and weighing the known facts in evidence..

You still are expected to apologize

Now you owe two.

One to Shirrush for imputing motives and viewpoints to him that are not at variance to a rational Human being.

And one to me for attempting to take me for a fool.

I know a hawk from a handsaw; if you get my drift.

Herald



Herald..I don't understand  the " hawk/handsaw" bit.
Anyway, I do have a question for you...et al...Why would Mersheimer and Walt write an article that would destroy their credibility and careers? Where's the logic?



Meanwhile, I'm not running away. I'm perusing the article by the above authors. I have printed out 40 pgs. to study for a reply and, irregardless of what you may think my comments will be, as they have been, honest. It's going to take some time sionce it leads to other writers, like Dershowitz, et al. At any rate, if I leave now it will just speed up your Alzheimers and you don't need that.




Like most academics those two were PAID on commission to write the study. Find out WHO funded them. The first rule to examine bias in research, is "who funded these clowns"?

Don't know Hamlet at all? Not only a bigot, but a poorly educated one; I thought my reference would zing by you.

As for Alzheimers, entropy kills everybody. Perhaps you would like to match wits with a peer, though, since my decaying mental acuity is beneath yours.

May I suggest this scholar;

http://www.partypro.com/mm_PARTYPRO_/Images/444.JPG">


Herald

The measure of greatness is not found in your accomplishments. Its in how much discouragement it takes to stop you.
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       1/28/2008 12:05:00 PM

The measure of greatness is not found in your accomplishments. Its in how much discouragement it takes to stop you.

Since you are neither great in argument; nor accomplished in logic, and not much of a rational thinker, either-appealing to emotion and bias without marshaling one single argument of your own of singular originality based on factual merit or complaining that the one feeble  emotion laden argument you muster is unfairly demolished in my blistering salvo of simple FACT BASED negation..........

And since you whine like a fly, when I nail your level of argument precisely, and describe your emotion based factually inaccurate bias and your poorly disguised PREJUDICE, thus revealed, accurately.

SWAT.

Have a nice day.

Herald
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    For general information.   1/28/2008 12:14:17 PM


The measure of greatness is not found in your accomplishments. Its in how much discouragement it takes to stop you.

Since you are neither great in argument; nor accomplished in logic, and not much of a rational thinker, either-appealing to emotion and bias without marshaling one single argument of your own of singular originality based on factual merit or complaining that the one feeble  emotion laden argument you muster is unfairly demolished in my blistering salvo of simple FACT BASED negation..........

And since you whine like a fly, when I nail your level of argument precisely, and describe your emotion based factually inaccurate bias and your poorly disguised PREJUDICE, thus revealed, accurately.

SWAT.

Have a nice day.

Herald
Herald.


There is a REASON why I spell it Herald and not Harold.

There is also a reason why I refer to fools as fools.  It is the SAME  reason.

Herald
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics