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Subject: Bush in Israel and the Palestinian situation
RaptorZ    1/9/2008 9:53:07 PM
I was reading an article about President Bush in Israel and the fact that rockets were fired from Gaza when he was there. Then I read a part in the article that said Abbas is governing the West Bank, and Gaza is it's own entity. Then I thought, well what if Israel worked with the West Bank and Abbas, made conditions there so much better that those in Gaza would either recognize it and make peace or those in the West Bank would speak up, do things against those in Gaza to preserve what they have. It seems there is already a split, and it's not so much a divide and conquer mentality but rather Divide and reform one half so that the other recognizes what they could achieve. Perhaps it's an outlandish theory, but has anything like that ever really been attempted? All I read is Israel is taking an all or nothing position, and granted I'm not there gettin a rocket fired at me. But does it not make sense to perhaps attempt this? Thoughts?
 
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RaptorZ       1/10/2008 5:16:43 PM
Apparently it's a bad idea
 
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jastayme3       1/10/2008 5:27:09 PM

 Variations have in fact been tried. There was the Oslo treaty. And an offer to give money to compensate
refugees. This one does have one advantage. If one faction is so far gone that they have to appeal to Israel, Israel
could give aid secretly-and then blackmail them into behaving. But that is a bit of a stretch. Honestly I don't think anything will
work.

 
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RaptorZ       1/11/2008 11:53:25 AM
Thanks for the response but....
 

Why does it have to be Blackmail? Such a negative connotation. Furthermore, During the Oslo Accords inception, were the Palestinian's split as much as they seem to be today? From my point of view, it seems that one side is unwilling to budge and the other (headed by Abbas) seems to be willing to play the political game. So offer aid in a way to build the infrastructure for Abbas's controlled areas, not militarily so much as we saw what happened with that about 6 months ago. I am not sure there's ever been such a split. And I?m not even saying Israel has to foot the whole bill, get the Saudi's on board, Jordan and Egypt as well.

 
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FJV       1/11/2008 12:57:31 PM
Seems that every US president wants an Israeli peace agreement in their final year in govt., if I remember correctly Clinton did the same.

The fact that these are useless doesn't seem to bother them.





 
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Ezekiel    Stop the occupation   1/13/2008 11:47:42 AM
What a collosel disaster... six years after the abysmal failure of Oslo and 1500 Israeli civilian deaths later, with the rise of Hamastan in the south, democratically elected (70%) mind you. This on the heels of the forced ethnic transfer of the Jewish inhabitants of the area.

But still it gets more absurd....this entire farce of a "peace process" is taking place with a backdrop of missiles still being continuesly fired indiscriminately on Israeli population centers. The inability for the Israeli government to effectively neutralize this bombardment that many Israeli civilians must endure day in and day out, and then to have to hear olmert discuss with its only steadfast ally about "peace" on the tube is simply a further demoralization.

This government has neither the moral right to make national decisions based on its breaking of the social contract between state and citizen or an ethical one due to the fact that Israel simply does not support the decision makers and overwhelmingly support new elections. The question that begs is why hasn't this government fallen then if it is so popular. This is where we get to the heart of the matter. Israel has the only pure proportional representaive systen in the world, which insulates the political actors and makes the political party supreme instead of the lawmaker be accountable to an actual constituency.

Sharon, a strong man who cared not for principles but result and personal power, played the coalition politics to a tee (he was always a master tacticiin) and Olmert and his cronies which were his yes-men (Olmert the ultimate yes-man, thus his deputy) in a sick twist of fate took over when the master was at his zenith and lost consciousness used his cotails to find their way into power. These are individuals that care only for their seats of power, they have no sense of duty and are simply unworthy to lead the Jewish State.  Far from trying to invigorate their people and ready them for the coming storm they prefer an exhausted public that have shown its gullibility on more then one occasion, a globalist radical media that will protect him as they did Sharon and therefore before winograd he has conveniently once again entered into a process of diplomacy with a figment of the imagination, whatever will sell. Yesterday it was Arafat(the biggest terrorist of the 21st century), today Abbas (Arafats no.2, and a known holocaust denier), tomorrow it will be Bargouti.

SO this is where we are today, OsloII, and once again the US has become an active participant and its prime moverwhich will surely force Israel's hand, and further Israels ride into disaster, and attempt to prop up a weak stooge who will do its bidding. We already got a taste of what is to come,this being summed up in pure US fashion, the president gave us the single news quote that  attempts to encapsulate and at the same time moralizes the entire issue of the day: "STOP THE OCCUPATION!"

Put on your safety belts b/c the year 2008 looks like its rearing to be quite a doozy.

 
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Herald12345    Invoking John Locke.   1/13/2008 12:12:09 PM

What a collosel disaster... six years after the abysmal failure of Oslo and 1500 Israeli civilian deaths later, with the rise of Hamastan in the south, democratically elected (70%) mind you. This on the heels of the forced ethnic transfer of the Jewish inhabitants of the area.

But still it gets more absurd....this entire farce of a "peace process" is taking place with a backdrop of missiles still being continuesly fired indiscriminately on Israeli population centers. The inability for the Israeli government to effectively neutralize this bombardment that many Israeli civilians must endure day in and day out, and then to have to hear olmert discuss with its only steadfast ally about "peace" on the tube is simply a further demoralization.

This government has neither the moral right to make national decisions based on its breaking of the social contract between state and citizen or an ethical one due to the fact that Israel simply does not support the decision makers and overwhelmingly support new elections. The question that begs is why hasn't this government fallen then if it is so popular. This is where we get to the heart of the matter. Israel has the only pure proportional representaive systen in the world, which insulates the political actors and makes the political party supreme instead of the lawmaker be accountable to an actual constituency.

Sharon, a strong man who cared not for principles but result and personal power, played the coalition politics to a tee (he was always a master tacticiin) and Olmert and his cronies which were his yes-men (Olmert the ultimate yes-man, thus his deputy) in a sick twist of fate took over when the master was at his zenith and lost consciousness used his cotails to find their way into power. These are individuals that care only for their seats of power, they have no sense of duty and are simply unworthy to lead the Jewish State.  Far from trying to invigorate their people and ready them for the coming storm they prefer an exhausted public that have shown its gullibility on more then one occasion, a globalist radical media that will protect him as they did Sharon and therefore before winograd he has conveniently once again entered into a process of diplomacy with a figment of the imagination, whatever will sell. Yesterday it was Arafat(the biggest terrorist of the 21st century), today Abbas (Arafats no.2, and a known holocaust denier), tomorrow it will be Bargouti.

SO this is where we are today, OsloII, and once again the US has become an active participant and its prime moverwhich will surely force Israel's hand, and further Israels ride into disaster, and attempt to prop up a weak stooge who will do its bidding. We already got a taste of what is to come,this being summed up in pure US fashion, the president gave us the single news quote that  attempts to encapsulate and at the same time moralizes the entire issue of the day: "STOP THE OCCUPATION!"

Put on your safety belts b/c the year 2008 looks like its rearing to be quite a doozy.


I wish we had an asylum world where we could put all the crazies. Problem is that they might land on the one rock in the Solar System with Helium 3 and we're ALL geo-strategically right back where we started with those crazies in the first place.

O.I.L.

Until Israel can squeeze that out of the equation, the bozos will be treated as your equals; when they clearly ARE  not.

I wish it were not that baldly and crassly obvious , but that is the arab camel poking its nose into the Israeli tent.

Can you help us ALL out here and produce an Israeli genius that can give us hydrogen fusion; so that we can dispense with those BARBARIANS?

Then they can go back to their tribal feuds, clan murders, psychotic superstitions, useless banditry, and sink into the ashheap of history along with the other FAILED civilizations.

We really don't need their malarkey dragging the rest of us down and impeding our collective Human PROGRESS.

Maybe; if they finally have NOTHING as a crutch or lever, they'll realize what it takes for Humans to have something, WORK for it,  accept personal responsibility for their own failures, and get with the program?

Herald
 
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Hugo       1/13/2008 1:28:21 PM

Maybe; if they finally have NOTHING as a crutch or lever, they'll realize what it takes for Humans to have something, WORK for it,  accept personal responsibility for their own failures, and get with the program?

Herald
I'm beginning to think that you're somewhat of an optimist Herald.

 
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