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Subject: Do not piss off the Americans
FJV    9/30/2007 7:16:14 AM
....For now Kidnapped student gets released, because he's American: "http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572654519&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull" "An IDF source said that Fishbein's US citizenship had saved his life since the "last thing the Palestinians want is to open a new front against the Americans." Had the kidnappers succeeded in abducting an Israeli national the outcome, the source said, would have been very different. "Their decision to release him was because they didn't want to deal with the hot potato otherwise known as the US," the source added."
 
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jastayme3       10/1/2007 12:53:28 PM

....For now

Kidnapped student gets released, because he's American:
"http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572654519&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull"

"An IDF source said that Fishbein's US citizenship had saved his life since the "last thing the Palestinians want is to open a new front against the Americans." Had the kidnappers succeeded in abducting an Israeli national the outcome, the source said, would have been very different. "Their decision to release him was because they didn't want to deal with the hot potato otherwise known as the US," the source added."






How good to have a reputation. And how ironic what the world respects. But there it is.

 
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kensohaski       4/25/2008 10:14:21 PM
The vermin otherwise known as terrorists only respect power..
 
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battar    Vermin respect rat poison   4/27/2008 2:15:15 PM
I haven't noticed that Islamic terrorists/freedom fighters have a great deal of respect for the USA.  It doesn't show up in the flag burnings and chants of "death to..." that they enjoy so much. Islamic extremists do not respect, or fear, the US. They respect only religion, and the only religion they respect is Islam, and everyone else is considered mud beneath their feet. If they release a US hostage, it is probably because they were told to by a Moslem they hold in respect because he is more fundementalist than them, and he only told them so because he wanted to play the part of the "moderate" to the US and earn the respect of a naive bunch of Westerners who still think that Moslems might at any time and in any way respect them.
Good morning America.
 
 
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jastayme3       5/3/2008 2:55:57 PM

I haven't noticed that Islamic terrorists/freedom fighters have a great deal of respect for the USA.  It doesn't show up in the flag burnings and chants of "death to..." that they enjoy so much. Islamic extremists do not respect, or fear, the US. They respect only religion, and the only religion they respect is Islam, and everyone else is considered mud beneath their feet. If they release a US hostage, it is probably because they were told to by a Moslem they hold in respect because he is more fundementalist than them, and he only told them so because he wanted to play the part of the "moderate" to the US and earn the respect of a naive bunch of Westerners who still think that Moslems might at any time and in any way respect them.

Good morning America.

 

It is fallacious, and more important, bad for morale, to argue that terrorists have no fear. Any terrorist organization is composed of several components including "godfathers"(big chiefs), "fanatics"(obsessivly devoted), "experts"(technical assistants, who are often mercenaries), and "expendable minions"(kids out for a lark. Only fanatics are likly to be unintimatable. And one cannot count on that. In any case people who have no fear are hard to find even among Moslems so a terrorist group that depends on them completly will soon run out of followers. One must not let horror at "spookiness" make us overestimate our enemies.
We know from history that Moslems do in fact have feelings of fear. Otherwise they would not have scattered at the gates of Vienna. And limiting that claim to Jihadists is not very helpful. Fanaticism is not a renewable resource and even fanatics grow old. Moreover, fanatics can have their will broken by a big enough application of ruthlessness as witness Japan.



 
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Ezekiel    pain as a motivator   5/3/2008 4:07:14 PM




I haven't noticed that Islamic terrorists/freedom fighters have a great deal of respect for the USA.  It doesn't show up in the flag burnings and chants of "death to..." that they enjoy so much. Islamic extremists do not respect, or fear, the US. They respect only religion, and the only religion they respect is Islam, and everyone else is considered mud beneath their feet. If they release a US hostage, it is probably because they were told to by a Moslem they hold in respect because he is more fundementalist than them, and he only told them so because he wanted to play the part of the "moderate" to the US and earn the respect of a naive bunch of Westerners who still think that Moslems might at any time and in any way respect them.



Good morning America.



 



It is fallacious, and more important, bad for morale, to argue that terrorists have no fear. Any terrorist organization is composed of several components including "godfathers"(big chiefs), "fanatics"(obsessivly devoted), "experts"(technical assistants, who are often mercenaries), and "expendable minions"(kids out for a lark. Only fanatics are likly to be unintimatable. And one cannot count on that. In any case people who have no fear are hard to find even among Moslems so a terrorist group that depends on them completly will soon run out of followers. One must not let horror at "spookiness" make us overestimate our enemies.
We know from history that Moslems do in fact have feelings of fear. Otherwise they would not have scattered at the gates of Vienna. And limiting that claim to Jihadists is not very helpful. Fanaticism is not a renewable resource and even fanatics grow old. Moreover, fanatics can have their will broken by a big enough application of ruthlessness as witness Japan.



Fanatic doesn't mean without pain... even dogs understand pain

 
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battar    Frightened by what?   5/4/2008 2:54:14 PM
The Japanese required a mighty large dose of ruthlessness before they waved the white flag, and even then there was a conspiracy to  prevent the surrender (read the history books).  I haven't noticed that planet Earth is suffering from a shortage of brainwashed fanatics.  If you recuit 17-18 year olds with no prospect of a bright future ahead of them and a religious education behind them, you can easily get them to stuff their fear where the sun doesn't shine. When (if) they reach their mid-twenties they regain the instinct. There is of course a very thin line dividing bravery from stupidity.
 
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jastayme3       5/6/2008 2:23:13 AM

The Japanese required a mighty large dose of ruthlessness before they waved the white flag, and even then there was a conspiracy to  prevent the surrender (read the history books).  I haven't noticed that planet Earth is suffering from a shortage of brainwashed fanatics.  If you recuit 17-18 year olds with no prospect of a bright future ahead of them and a religious education behind them, you can easily get them to stuff their fear where the sun doesn't shine. When (if) they reach their mid-twenties they regain the instinct. There is of course a very thin line dividing bravery from stupidity.


 And then what do you get? A one hundred and twenty pound missile that takes 17 years to build, can only fire on bearing only guidance, has no armor piercing capability and travels at ten miles per day and whose only advantage is it's ability to prey on the superstitious awe of Westerners about people that use suicide as a tactic. Which also requires two escorts to follow said missile to remind it that they will kill his mother if he turns back. A suicide bomber is just a weapon and not all that effective of one. They are going out of fashion even in Islamic countries.
And yes the Japanese required a mighty large dose of ruthlessness. The point of which is vague.
In any case as I said, the officers of terrorist groups can be intimidated.
There is one story of a terrorist group that kidnapped some Russian diplomats. After negotiations broke down, they sent the arm of one of the diplomats. At which point the Russians mailed them the arm of a reliative of the terrorist chief. After a few weeks of arms trading the terrorists backed down. And for many a year after that no terrorist attacks were conducted on Russian citizens.

 
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WarNerd       5/6/2008 3:13:32 AM

In any case as I said, the officers of terrorist groups can be intimidated.
There is one story of a terrorist group that kidnapped some Russian diplomats. After negotiations broke down, they sent the arm of one of the diplomats. At which point the Russians mailed them the arm of a relative of the terrorist chief. After a few weeks of arms trading the terrorists backed down. And for many a year after that no terrorist attacks were conducted on Russian citizens.

 
Heard a similar story that supposedly happened in Lebanon back in the 1970's.  Terrorists kidnap some Russian diplomat and send back a finger with a list of demands.  48 hours later the get a reply from the Russians consisting of a finger from each of dozen just kidnapped relatives of the group's various leaders plus photos of each leader taken through the scope of a Russian sniper rifle in the last 24 hours.  The terrorists got the message, the diplomat was released with an apology, and nobody had the balls and insanity to mess with Russian diplomats until a couple years ago in Iraq.
 
There was a lot of speculation and rumor at the time that the Russians had/were going to sent a hit team into Iraq to do something similar, then silence.
 
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jastayme3       5/6/2008 2:27:01 PM



In any case as I said, the officers of terrorist groups can be intimidated.
There is one story of a terrorist group that kidnapped some Russian diplomats. After negotiations broke down, they sent the arm of one of the diplomats. At which point the Russians mailed them the arm of a relative of the terrorist chief. After a few weeks of arms trading the terrorists backed down. And for many a year after that no terrorist attacks were conducted on Russian citizens.


 

Heard a similar story that supposedly happened in Lebanon back in the 1970's.  Terrorists kidnap some Russian diplomat and send back a finger with a list of demands.  48 hours later the get a reply from the Russians consisting of a finger from each of dozen just kidnapped relatives of the group's various leaders plus photos of each leader taken through the scope of a Russian sniper rifle in the last 24 hours.  The terrorists got the message, the diplomat was released with an apology, and nobody had the balls and insanity to mess with Russian diplomats until a couple years ago in Iraq.
 

There was a lot of speculation and rumor at the time that the Russians had/were going to sent a hit team into Iraq to do something similar, then silence.


The finger thing is probably to gruesome for most Westerners. Though it is nice to think about in a curious sort of way. But the sniper-photos were a brilliant touch and certainly one we can do.
 
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battar    Different bits of the anatomy   5/10/2008 4:07:30 PM
Funny thing, I remember the Russian hostage story said it was an ear, not an arm of a finger, and I understood it was the nephew of one of the Amal chiefs, during the first Lebnon war (1982-1985).  Yes, you can only beat them by playing by their own rules.
 
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