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Subject: Christian proselytizing in Israel
reefdiver    5/7/2007 11:58:26 AM
A friend was trying to tell me that a Christian can go to jail in Israel for proselytizing. Though I can find numerous attempts to pass such laws (one article mentioned a penalty of 5 years in prison), I can find little about such laws actually being enacted. I've seen comments that the LDS have voluntarily agreed not to proselytize in Israel, but nothing concrete denying such. Anyone have more info on this?
 
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Shirrush       5/13/2007 5:01:07 PM
According to the tradition, the People of Israel were chosen by the Deity to receive the Torah, and to carry the burden of abiding by it. That's all it means really.
The Christians have adopted the written part of the Torah, which they call the Old Testament, and added their own book to make the Bible. So let us say that if we are the chosen, they are the choosers.
They picked what they needed, and added their own stuff. In Greek.


 
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jastayme3       5/13/2007 6:07:01 PM

I guess my point was based out of ignorance (mine, not theirs). I was under the impression that it was from any and all descendents of the 12 tribes were 'Chosen'. To which I could not understand why they would be so inclined to save a people who were in fact 'Chosen.' Granted, this is what I assumed they believed.



Well, don't I look like the idiot...



_____________________________________________ No, you look like you have a laudible and respectful curiousity about what people believe.
 
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displacedjim       5/13/2007 6:19:56 PM


 
I guess my point was based out of ignorance (mine, not theirs). I was under the impression that it was from any and all descendents of the 12 tribes were 'Chosen'. To which I could not understand why they would be so inclined to save a people who were in fact 'Chosen.' Granted, this is what I assumed they believed.
 
 
Yes, the descendents of the twelve tribes of Israel are the chosen people.  They are descended from the sons of Jacob whose name changed to Israel.  "Chosen" doesn't mean "saved" as in being certain of going to heaven to be with God after death.  I'm not going to try to define "chosen" becuase I'm sure I wouldn't get it right, but I think at least partly it means God chose Abraham (being a man who loved God) to establish a special relationship with because it suited God's purposes, including to serve as an example for the world to see and learn from and to eventually bring forth the messiah to establish a means for salvation for those who believe.  Thus, Christians need to witness to Jews just like we need to witness to everyone else.
 
 
 
 
 
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Rasputin       5/14/2007 10:11:51 PM




Thanks for the comments. Was just curious. Incidently,  I find it really strange - make that bizarre - that any Christian group would have ever tried to pay someone to convert. 





Plenty of Christian groups pay and coerce people to convert especially in the poorer countries. In India in the North east they use terrorist techniques.In fact the FBI was on one case recently, I think a Baptist group backed by US funding.

>>
98% of Nagaland is Christian, 90% of whom are regular Baptists. If you are not a Christian, you have no social presence there and you live constantly in fear. I would invite you to go the Northestern Hill University Campus. They have a substantial Naga presence. You cannot belong to the student union there if you are not a Christian. Go to Manipur, and see for yourself how the Christians are terrorising the Hindu Manipuris. Go to Tripura. See how systematically the Christian tribals are killing Hindu Bengalis. Only recently, the beleaguered Hindus have formed vigilante groups there. At this time, the desparate govt is distributing arms to the people to defend themselves.

Just recently (NDTV news), Baptist Nagas vandalized a Buddhist temple in Tripura and proclaimed that no other religion other than Christianity is allowed there. Do you know that these Christian groups regularly come and threaten schoolchildren to not conduct Saraswati puja in their schools ? Do you know that these Christian groups banned viewing Mahabharata in TV?

I am sure, you did not know.

Regards,

Dhruba.

_____________________

Hence if u note after Tsunami no Christian or international religious charity was allowed in the country.



Nagaland!!! Please clarify with me, is that not the state in India which the British were never able to fully subdue and they have an independence and freedom streak in them?? The kind that never surrenders.

And that this Nagaland which borders tamil nadu, simply issued an optimatum to tamil nadu to redraw the state borders to the advantage of Nagaland, and immediately the Tamil nadu capitulated, thinking of what kind of consequences it would get if it did not.

I also saw a photo, of Nagaland, where opposed to most of India which venerates and worship cows, the Nagalanders simply speared cows in the streets with impunity.

 
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Rasputin       5/14/2007 10:23:22 PM
Well a footnote of history.

Jews of ancient Israel proselytizied to Galileans to convert them to jews, according to the history books, this was done by force. And rather a success it was. Though they had different more simple, brave, direct and brash charecteristics as often described by the reaction of jews in the bible to galileans speaking.

The galileans were among the first that Christ the messiah first selected and was teaching peacefully. Having found this as a threat the jewish religious high council the sanhedrin decided to cast off or split with Christians (the first of whom were undoubtedly jewish, though the naming of the group as Christians originated in greece)

Then the Christians took the name of the Lord everywhere they went to the rest of the world.

 
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Rasputin       5/15/2007 12:45:31 AM
Well a footnote of history.

Jews of ancient Israel proselytizied to Galileans to convert them to jews, according to the history books, this was done by force. And rather a success it was. Though they had different more simple, brave, direct and brash charecteristics as often described by the reaction of jews in the bible to galileans speaking.

The galileans were among the first that Christ the messiah first selected and was teaching peacefully. Having found this as a threat the jewish religious high council the sanhedrin decided to cast off or split with Christians (the first of whom were undoubtedly jewish, though the naming of the group as Christians originated in greece)

Then the Christians took the name of the Lord everywhere they went to the rest of the world.

 
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Ezekiel    in the news   8/17/2007 9:30:34 AM
 
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timon_phocas    What does Jewish mean?    8/18/2007 2:22:15 PM

All of the kings of the northern Kingdom of Israel were practicing pagans (and most of their people as well). Many of the kings of Judah (Manasseh springs to mind as the foremost example) were practicing pagans. Are they still considered Jews?

 

Does the definition of Jewish identity mean that a Jew may practice Judaism, or agnosticism or atheism, but not avow another religion? Or does it simply mean that Jews cannot be Christian?    

Thank you very much...
 
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Hugo    Shirrush   8/19/2007 12:37:50 PM
Any views on Cardinal Lustiger, his life and his passing?
 
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Shirrush    Oh well!   8/20/2007 3:09:48 AM

Any views on Cardinal Lustiger, his life and his passing?

Not much. For us Jews, apostates are despicable traitors and must be shunned. If, however, the said apostate is outstandingly successful, has a brilliant career, becomes famous, and, most importantly, refrains from turning against us, we all enthusiastically claim him back, and take great pride in him being one of us. In this case, we regard apostasy as just another one of these little "schticks", such as Einstein's untidiness and Dayan's womanizing, that normally come with great personalities.

I did initiate a thread, a few days ago, about Cardinal Lustiger z"l on the France board. Nobody reacted.
Make sure you read some of the talkbacks below the article I linked to there. Entertaining!

 
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