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Subject: Avigdor Lieberman
Herc the Merc    11/1/2006 3:49:17 PM
comments??
 
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Ezekiel       4/11/2007 9:44:09 AM
All the while azmi bashara is now seeking asylum for alleged treason supplying information to Israel's enemies. Not only is much of Lieberman's rhetoric on the israeli arab threat is vindicated. It puts in perpective whom is really endangering israel and whom is trying to work for it.
 
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Shirrush    Jastayme   4/11/2007 5:05:37 PM
Point taken Jastayme. Your dismay is understandable and the fact that your own religion and values system is a lot more faith-based than ours is acknowledged.

The naked truth  is that the Jews are a tribe, or rather a very old multi-tribal nation, that has evolved what amounts to be the most demanding rules-based, proprietary religion on Earth. Faith is either taken for granted, or deemed secondary, but rarely discussed or dealt with outside of Hassidic or otherwise missionary circles. The enormous set of rules (halakhot) by which religion governs our daily lives, and there are rules for every imaginable waking activity including sex, excretion, personal hygiene, making war, financial transactions, taxes, and so on, sets us apart from the rest of mankind. Only Islam which is much younger, and Hinduism(s), which is/are a lot older than Judaism, have made similar attempts at regulating their believer's daily lives, but nothing of this is as comprehensive as in Judaism.

The great difficulty and fastidiousness of observance in Judaism -modern Orthodoxy is IMV a kind of non-treatable OCD- has made a solid majority of us "atheists". Modern life is complicated enough and lots of us have gladly done away with most of the myriad of time-consuming, exhausting little rituals and petty prohibitions heaped on us by generations upon generations of supercilious old bearded men bent on interpreting and implementing both parts of the Torah in the most unequivocally sin-proof way. By the way, most of that was cristallized, or should I say, sclerotized, in a late Middle-Ages book called Shulhan 'Arooch, compiled by Rabbi Yossef Caro of blessed memory. In those days, most if not all of the widely dispersed Jewish communities were in a very precarious situation, and cohesion, discipline as well as pleasing the One and averting yet more of His wrath were of the essence. Yet, this book is still regarded by the religious Jews of today as G_d's very own How-To Book on Everything.

Reform Judaism is a purely North-American phenomenon I know little about and understand even less. All I can say is that they appear to have discarded lots of the tiresome parts along with some of the fun ones as well, but the authenticity of their Judaism is not to be doubted in spite of the apparent shallowness of their rituals. I still belong to an Orthodox community for the sake of belonging (the family thing!), but I have generally been avoiding synagogue as much as possible while ingesting, with great pleasure, every conceivable zoological that G_d, in His infinite wisdom, has seen fit to throw into the path of my mandibles.
As Ezekiel said, I'm a very baaad Jew, and I'll end up in the Israeli MoF-managed part of Hell, or reincarnate into the body of one of these lowly invertebrates that are not supposed to be on my menu, but are...

 
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Shirrush    Azmi Bsharra   4/11/2007 5:21:07 PM
Well, nothing here is for sure. His party's people said that he didn't defect and he'll be back as soon as his Jew-hating speaking tour of commie and islamist venues is over.
If not, so be it. In spite of the fact that he is probably the smartest, most articulate Knesset member (he has a PhD in Philosophy from commie East-Berlin!), he is also a true enemy, and he certainly will not be missed, especially not by his constituency that appear to be quite happy being rid of him, since they gain nothing being regarded as enemies by the Jewish majority and are mostly concerned with mundane day-to-day matters such as employment, education, municipal infrastructure and so on.
That said, nothing in a democracy vindicates bullying a minority, which is what Lieberman does.

 
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battar    Shirush the Gaul   4/12/2007 5:16:44 PM
The way Shirrush speaks about taking a knife and fork to every other zoological oddity you would think he was French.
But he;s not, is he? His English is too good to be American, He makes too much sense to be Irish, he;s too involved to be Australian, so that probably makes him South African. Just a guess.
 
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Shirrush    Battar   4/12/2007 8:25:43 PM
Quite true. I'm French.
Any problem with that?

 
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Ezekiel       4/13/2007 9:57:00 AM
Came across a great analysis of Israel that I recommend to anybody interested in Israel. Especially the direction this thread has taken.

http://www.jewishpress.com/page.do/21227/Israel%27s_Typhoon.html

 
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Ezekiel    here's the correct link   4/13/2007 9:59:56 AM
sorry.
>>
Came across a great analysis of Israel that I recommend to anybody interested in Israel. Especially the direction this thread has taken.

http://www.jewishpress.com/page.do/21227/Israel%27s_Typhoon.html<br><br>;" target="_blank">link


 
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Ezekiel       4/19/2007 12:53:42 PM
shirrush,

Your zoological interpretation of jewish philosophy is eye opening to say the least.  seemingly deride those 'bearded' men but it is those 'men' and the jewish law that was the source of a jewish perpetuation that has survived and even thrived even in the most adverse conditions. It seems to me, from my intense study of Jewish philosophy that the torah is more a guide, a path and less a faith. A comprehensive reality that demands rigor and and attention to detail due to its perceived mission of importance- perfection of their society. Living in perfect justice is the point of jewish law, and the exile gave jews the ability to develop an individual philosophy they lacked and was the weakness in the 1st and 2nd jewish commonwealth. The re-establishment of the Jewish nation-state has provided a new jewish reality. one that has not been witnessed in 1900 years. This provides a new mechanism to reinvigorate the law. So though jewish law for the past 200 years has been stagnant for  it now has possibilities.

I don't know if your a bad jew, b/c i don't know you. I only remark that the moral code of the Jews is derived by and from the torah. I believe that a person can be a good person but a bad jew. The question is does it really matter if you are a good jew or not? I would never get personal and label 'good' or 'bad' without knowing your name. Only the idea's are important to me.





Point taken Jastayme. Your dismay is understandable and the fact that your own religion and values system is a lot more faith-based than ours is acknowledged.

The naked truth  is that the Jews are a tribe, or rather a very old multi-tribal nation, that has evolved what amounts to be the most demanding rules-based, proprietary religion on Earth. Faith is either taken for granted, or deemed secondary, but rarely discussed or dealt with outside of Hassidic or otherwise missionary circles. The enormous set of rules (halakhot) by which religion governs our daily lives, and there are rules for every imaginable waking activity including sex, excretion, personal hygiene, making war, financial transactions, taxes, and so on, sets us apart from the rest of mankind. Only Islam which is much younger, and Hinduism(s), which is/are a lot older than Judaism, have made similar attempts at regulating their believer's daily lives, but nothing of this is as comprehensive as in Judaism.

The great difficulty and fastidiousness of observance in Judaism -modern Orthodoxy is IMV a kind of non-treatable OCD- has made a solid majority of us "atheists". Modern life is complicated enough and lots of us have gladly done away with most of the myriad of time-consuming, exhausting little rituals and petty prohibitions heaped on us by generations upon generations of supercilious old bearded men bent on interpreting and implementing both parts of the Torah in the most unequivocally sin-proof way. By the way, most of that was cristallized, or should I say, sclerotized, in a late Middle-Ages book called Shulhan 'Arooch, compiled by Rabbi Yossef Caro of blessed memory. In those days, most if not all of the widely dispersed Jewish communities were in a very precarious situation, and cohesion, discipline as well as pleasing the One and averting yet more of His wrath were of the essence. Yet, this book is still regarded by the religious Jews of today as G_d's very own How-To Book on Everything.

Reform Judaism is a purely North-American phenomenon I know little about and understand even less. All I can say is that they appear to have discarded lots of the tiresome parts along with some of the fun ones as well, but the authenticity of their Judaism is not to be doubted in spite of the apparent shallowness of their rituals. I still belong to an Orthodox community for the sake of belonging (the family thing!), but I have generally been avoiding synagogue as much as possible while ingesting, with great pleasure, every conceivable zoological that G_d, in His infinite wisdom, has seen fit to throw into the path of my mandibles.
As Ezekiel said, I'm a very baaad Jew, and I'll end up in the Israeli MoF-managed part of Hell, or reincarnate into the body of one of these lowly invertebrates that are not supposed to be on my menu, but are...



 
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Ezekiel       5/7/2007 2:00:14 PM
I think it is plain to everyone that lieberman is far from being an ideologue, a purist or even extreme in the wake of the winograd report. He has opted to stay in a coalition in order to prevent netanyahu gaining the premier. The power politics we see in israel daily reveals to us who has platforms  for political expediency sake and he honestly has beliefs and truths  not willing to compromise.  Lieberman again proves  to this thread that he is a sharon clone... a political animal  that is not really  a nationalist but a pragmatist willing to stay in an ideological bankrupt coalition in order to advance personal power.
 
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Shirrush       5/7/2007 3:33:06 PM
Whaddaya know Ezekiel? Avigdog has barely spoken a word since he joined the coalition. At least not in Hebrew.
He's Russian, Ezekiel, Rrrraaaah-ssian!


 
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