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Subject: Required Reading on What is AntiSemitism
swhitebull    8/18/2006 2:23:33 PM
Excellent analysis when people say that Arabs are semites, too, so they cant be "anti-semitic" Jonah Goldberg, National Review, 2003: ANTI-SEMITISM [Jonah Goldberg] Stanley's post reminded me of a point I've been meaning to bring up for a while. Many Arab anti-Semites like to say "I can't be anti-Semitic, I am a Semite!" This is, of course, an ignorant dodge. The word "anti-Semitism" was coined by Wilhelm Marr in Germany in 1879 because the common word for Jew-hatred, Judenhass, had gone out of style. The only major population of "semites" in Germany at the time were, of course, Jews and Marr hated them. Anyway, because the word is a dodge, many Jew-haters in the US get to play silly games with it too. But the opposition to this war by the anti-Semites simply underscores how they really are Jew-haters. After all, a real anti-Semite should love this war because Arabs are, in fact, Semites too. In this sense the US is simply hunting where the ducks are. Yet even at this level these guys are hypocrites, because its not Semites they dislike, it's just the Hebrew ones. Just a thought. swhitebull
 
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jastayme3       6/18/2008 9:53:49 AM

This is another thread archeology. But it was inspired by recent experience, namely a web-quarrel which I would really rather forget and which made me feel rather nasty inside. But it did have the advantage of giving a thought:

 Here is one causethat is not thought of much. Simply living together in the same area. This is not quite a "blame the victim", it is more a "blame humanity"-for being human.

For many centuries Jews were obvious foreigners-sometimes the only foreigners most people knew. They were also people with whom there was an ideological difference. When that happens, there is a strong temptation to magnify day-to-day offenses, including philosophical discussions that get overheated(as is not unknown) and target a whole group. Were Jews the top-dog there would be, under this theory "anti-goyism". In fact of course there was but Jews, until recently did not have the power to be physically cruel and nowadays there is less of a less casual attitude toward cruelty(which does not necessarily mean there is less cruelty by the way-simply that it takes a different form).
The accumulation of this back-and-forth stress causes tempers to snap repeatedly. This does not just happen between Jews and gentiles. Stuart Miller, in his book on Europe "Painted in Blood" claimed that the crowding of different groups and factions together created a great deal of animosity which repeatedly snaps, storing up more animosity for later.  On this theory  at least some part of  anti-semitism is just tribal rivalry and at least some gentiles hated Jews the way they hated each other.
Obviously this cannot be a complete answer. But it plays at least some part in it.


For instance suppose someone had a theological quarrel with a Jew who unlike me did not have a desire to suppress any anger for the sake of future good relations. Someone else nearby got into a more mundane fight over the price of a pair of
shoes. Still someone else fell in love with the wrong person and caused a kerfuffle. All this for centuries. It would go quite a
ways toward creating trouble.
Add to that the legal difficulties of having two cultures in the same city. Jews were legally in roughly the same status as foreign merchants in general. But Jews unlike Venetians did not have a Venetian navy(unless of course the Jew was a Venetian, of an influential family which was not impossible however rare).
crept in for
 
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kensohaski       6/20/2008 9:12:15 AM
Racism exists everywhere.  Fortunately it is a dying concept. 
 
In most cases racism seems to be just another way to grab power. 
 
Germany was an exception however in that the eliminationist-anti-semitism that existed prior to the war was a couple of hundred years in the making.  Never in recorded history has this happened. 
 
As my wife is Jewish I am beginning to have some insight to the satanic nature of racism.  I cannot put it any other way.. 
 
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jastayme3       6/20/2008 2:00:45 PM

Racism exists everywhere.  Fortunately it is a dying concept. 

 

In most cases racism seems to be just another way to grab power. 

 

Germany was an exception however in that the eliminationist-anti-semitism that existed prior to the war was a couple of hundred years in the making.  Never in recorded history has this happened. 

 

As my wife is Jewish I am beginning to have some insight to the satanic nature of racism.  I cannot put it any other way.. 


I think it is just a mutating concept. When it is no longer fashionable to be prejudiced against one group, people change targets.
 
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norden       6/20/2008 2:53:28 PM




Racism exists everywhere.  Fortunately it is a dying concept. 



 



In most cases racism seems to be just another way to grab power. 



 



Germany was an exception however in that the eliminationist-anti-semitism that existed prior to the war was a couple of hundred years in the making.  Never in recorded history has this happened. 



 



As my wife is Jewish I am beginning to have some insight to the satanic nature of racism.  I cannot put it any other way.. 




I think it is just a mutating concept. When it is no longer fashionable to be prejudiced against one group, people change targets.
I agree with Jastayme on this. As long as there are religous and ethnic differences and the blinding desire for power (human nature) amongst people there will always be racism. Im not trying to diminish the behavior antisemites because it is rampant and almost hip to hate Jews in some small circles especially amongst Dems. Who hate Jews because of Israel's policies or the fact that Israel even exists. Catholics Protestants, and Baptists all make fun of each other and they all agree to hate Mormans. As long as there are differences in people and not a homogenous mixture of humanity there will always be a whipping boy class. The Irish Italians and Jews were all hated in New York during mass immigration and they all agreed Native Americans were savages to eradicate and marginalize. I really didnt want to bring up the Muslim/Kaffir argument but sometimes racism is ordained by God.
 
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norden    one more thing   6/20/2008 2:57:57 PM
I think its funny that some "Christians" hate Jews because of the death of Christ. To me they are saying Jews are powerful enough to usurp their Gods will.

Guess I should take the plastic Jesus off the dashboard of my car and replace it with a bobble-head Heeb

 
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Ezekiel    hate and its discontents   6/21/2008 3:49:48 PM
Norden I get the human nature idea that man will always pick on someone. The little guy who will always be the victim in a cold world such is our, at least looking at human civilizations. This though just isn't enough when it comes to ani-semitism. Anti-semitism is one of the oldest human intolerance that has persisted in its rage and prejudice throughout the ages. It is a hate that crosses and colors many civilizations, empires, nations and cities...The Jew it can be aptly stated is the most hated people to walk the face of the earth...so the question stands, in its strong sturdy founation. Why this hate? why has the passion to hate the Hebrew endured for so long and in such immense proportions.
 
Hate exists, yes but the immensity of anti semitism begs the question why this hate in particular. The Jew hater is a historical figure, it has tradition, it has captured the imagination of millions, anti semitism demands more then an over simplistic human-nature paradigm. Anti semitim deserves its own category of study and in my opinion is a corollary to any discussion of mans barbarity. I say this because when you really try to unearth the mystery of this peculiar intolerance for the Jew, one slowly realizes that this hate reveals to us MORE about humanity and less about the reasons the Jews are the brunt of mans discontents.  

 
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norden       6/22/2008 3:21:51 PM
Ezekiel thank you for he response and i agree Jews have been histories whipping boy and the rich guys people want to take down. I dont want to diminish their plight (I am not a denier by any means) but if you look at their geographical positioning and their age i think the Jews are also histories survivors.  Animists, Pagans, Zoroastrians, and Aztec have all been pretty much eradicated by conquest and conversion. It is one of the oldest surviving religions around so it has a long history. I dont want to get in to the Nazis because honestly i dont understand the reasoning behind the atrocities (how did Hitler get the Nazi party members to agree to that shit anyway) and the last hundred years are a drop in the bucket compared to the crap Jews have had to put up with. Israel has been the center of the universe for a long time. Solomon was envied for his wealth and power and under siege. Pagan Rome kicked their ass. "Christians" also had their "revenge" (although i dont think its what Christ would have wanted another whole discussion) Then an entire religion recited by a epileptic illiterate was formed almost for the sole reason to kill Jews. Muslims took North Africa, Southern Europe, Middle east, and parts of Asia and still the Jews survived (a freakin amazing feat if you ask me) The problem i see is that Jews are from Jerusalem and man has viewed it as the birthplace of civilization for the dictator du jour to conquer. I realize you, Swhitebull and others have a much better grasp on Jewish history than I but to me it seems really simple. I hope my oversimplification does not appear dismissive its not my intention. I dont look at Jews as the victim (even though they have been) but as an fascinating example of perseverance throughout mankinds history. Im shocked they even have a nation looking at their history.
 
Norden 
 
If i offended anyone with this post its because you were looking for it. 

 
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norden    retraction   6/22/2008 3:38:44 PM


If i offended anyone with this post its because you were looking for it.


I put this in and realized it was just a conditioned response. Some of my best friends are Jews so if i did offend anyone feel free to chastise me and i will retort.  ;)
 
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jastayme3       6/23/2008 1:45:13 AM

Norden I get the human nature idea that man will always pick on someone. The little guy who will always be the victim in a cold world such is our, at least looking at human civilizations. This though just isn't enough when it comes to ani-semitism. Anti-semitism is one of the oldest human intolerance that has persisted in its rage and prejudice throughout the ages. It is a hate that crosses and colors many civilizations, empires, nations and cities...The Jew it can be aptly stated is the most hated people to walk the face of the earth...so the question stands, in its strong sturdy founation. Why this hate? why has the passion to hate the Hebrew endured for so long and in such immense proportions.

 

Hate exists, yes but the immensity of anti semitism begs the question why this hate in particular. The Jew hater is a historical figure, it has tradition, it has captured the imagination of millions, anti semitism demands more then an over simplistic human-nature paradigm. Anti semitim deserves its own category of study and in my opinion is a corollary to any discussion of mans barbarity. I say this because when you really try to unearth the mystery of this peculiar intolerance for the Jew, one slowly realizes that this hate reveals to us MORE about humanity and less about the reasons the Jews are the brunt of mans discontents.  





Actually I only said it was part of it. There doesn't have to be one single cause.
 
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