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Subject: Democrats and Iraq
appleciderus    2/19/2007 9:56:35 PM
In the same Fox News program I referenced on the US board, this tired old man almost came out of his chair when Charles Krauthammer said something like this: Those Democrats who believe the war in Iraq is lost SHOULD pursue a policy that denies funding of the war. NO Democrat should pursue a policy that prevents winning the war in Iraq. Profound!
 
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BadNews       2/19/2007 11:14:13 PM
What he meant when taken in context is simply that the Democrats are threading on dangerous ground and what they attempt now will have serious implications later. Pretty much what they did in 1975
 
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appleciderus       2/20/2007 9:06:34 AM
What he meant was that if you believe the war is already lost you have a moral obligation to end it by defunding it. If you don't think the war is lost it is disgracful to make the war unwinable in the pursuit of political power.
 
Democrats, in the quest for political power, have historically been willing to do damage in the belief that whatever damage is done can be corrected and/or repaired once power is attained.
 
The Democratic party platform for the Presidential election of 1864 is a classic example. Change a few names, close your eyes, and it seems like we're listening to Charlie Gibson.
 
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BadNews       2/20/2007 11:51:15 AM

What he meant was that if you believe the war is already lost you have a moral obligation to end it by defunding it. If you don't think the war is lost it is disgracful to make the war unwinable in the pursuit of political power.

 

Democrats, in the quest for political power, have historically been willing to do damage in the belief that whatever damage is done can be corrected and/or repaired once power is attained.

 

The Democratic party platform for the Presidential election of 1864 is a classic example. Change a few names, close your eyes, and it seems like we're listening to Charlie Gibson.


Barring the WWII era, you can strongly make a case that the democrats have acted similarly in every war
 
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Ashley-the-man       2/20/2007 11:56:10 AM
"Barring the WWII era, you can strongly make a case that the democrats have acted similarly in every war "
 
Take away the nuclear bomb and start the invasion of Japan with casualties mounting up to the anticipated one million and the democrats would have demanded a negotiated settlement - that would have included allowing the Soviet Union to take over large portions of Japan, Mongolia, Korea in exchange for their belated declaration of war on Japan.
 
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xylene       2/20/2007 12:33:06 PM
The democrats have been all talk and no action. So far they can't even get a non-binding resolution through the legislature. The Republicans can't point to the democrats for current situation. They have had almost 4 years to make progress in Iraq. They have the strongest military machine in the world at their disposal and  funding everytime they have asked for it.
 
Now 4 years later why is it still dangerous to drive from the Green Zone to Baghdad airport? Something is not working right, but it can't be laid at the feet of since they have simply been flies on the wall.
 
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BadNews       2/20/2007 1:05:57 PM

Now 4 years later why is it still dangerous to drive from the Green Zone to Baghdad airport? Something is not working right, but it can't be laid at the feet of since they have simply been flies on the wall.


From day one all have said would long and drawn affair
Congress Democratic or Republican does not run the war, the situation on the ground and the commanders in the field do, we have been spoiled again by high tech videos and images of tanks blowing whoiles in things.
 
Anytime you fight an insurgency it takes time, patientce and persistance. Period end of story.
 
We are so taken in by politcal dribble - congressmen with a better way ::: News Reporters looking for a scoop rather than just reporting facts,
 
I just get sooo pissed when people voice politcal takes on things and don't even realize that they are
 
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xylene       2/20/2007 4:39:42 PM
They did not from day one said it would devolve into this mess. Cheney said it would be a matter of days , weeks, maybe months. Wolfowitz dismissed the assertion there were not enough troops and said that Iraqi oil would fund the entire thing. Bush put on a flight suit and declared major combat operations over, under a banner saying "Mission Accomplished".
 
 
 
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Panther       2/20/2007 5:33:32 PM

They did not from day one said it would devolve into this mess. Cheney said it would be a matter of days , weeks, maybe months. Wolfowitz dismissed the assertion there were not enough troops and said that Iraqi oil would fund the entire thing. Bush put on a flight suit and declared major combat operations over, under a banner saying "Mission Accomplished".

 

 


First, i would like too say - i'm very glad too see that your still around Appleciderus!
Now, xylene i'll try too keep it simple - They had consistently said this war (and the confrontation with the terrorists and Ba'athist  in Iraq is no different), was going too be a very long one. The inital campaign of ousting Saddam proved too be very short indeed, lasting a little under four weeks! As i understood it at the time, before all of this politcal jockeying and self interest had seriously confused the matter way out of all proportion, that is what i believe they were referring too. Also, i haven't seen anyone of Mr. Bush's criticizer's yet understand the significance of his declaring "Mission Accomplished" too the major combat operations against Saddam's government and his doing it on the flight deck of the oft mentioned carrier! When you look at it in that light,  you would see that he was right in declaring it so, seeing that Saddam was no longer in power and his military was effectively destroyed once and for all! Our victory over his government was complete and final! I do believe our government had expected a certain level of violence too continue for quite some time in Iraq. It was just a matter of... "Who, what, when and where"!
 
Now, the magnification of the violence in Iraq through the lens of the media, helps the terrorist too incredibily achieve one of their primary goals - misleading the American public to the true nature of events on the ground in Iraq and sapping our will too hang on and not leave a mess that will surely come back to haunt us in the worst ways imaginable! That and rational and quite honest discussion's of our opinions amongst ourseleves has not really helped in the short term in this conflict!
 
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BadNews       2/20/2007 6:34:33 PM

They did not from day one said it would devolve into this mess. Cheney said it would be a matter of days , weeks, maybe months. Wolfowitz dismissed the assertion there were not enough troops and said that Iraqi oil would fund the entire thing. Bush put on a flight suit and declared major combat operations over, under a banner saying "Mission Accomplished".

 

 



MISSION ACCOMPLISHED was that Saddam was removed from power, that was all and it was meant for the crew of the aircraft carrier that hung it who were on their way home from that operation.
 
The president, Vice President and all concerend were saying that the long term war woiuld be long and have set backs, They have said this over and over and over without change of heart. Only the Democrats were saying anything to the contrary, your paraphrases of VP Cheney and others are way out of context
 
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Panther       2/20/2007 6:58:47 PM




They did not from day one said it would devolve into this mess. Cheney said it would be a matter of days , weeks, maybe months. Wolfowitz dismissed the assertion there were not enough troops and said that Iraqi oil would fund the entire thing. Bush put on a flight suit and declared major combat operations over, under a banner saying "Mission Accomplished".



 



 




First, i would like too say - i'm very glad too see that your still around Appleciderus!

Now, xylene i'll try too keep it simple - They had consistently said this war (and the confrontation with the terrorists and Ba'athist  in Iraq is no different), was going too be a very long one. The inital campaign of ousting Saddam proved too be very short indeed, lasting a little under four weeks! As i understood it at the time, before all of this politcal jockeying and self interest had seriously confused the matter way out of all proportion, that is what i believe they were referring too. Also, i haven't seen anyone of Mr. Bush's criticizer's yet understand the significance of his declaring "Mission Accomplished" too the major combat operations against Saddam's government and his doing it on the flight deck of the oft mentioned carrier! When you look at it in that light,  you would see that he was right in declaring it so, seeing that Saddam was no longer in power and his military was effectively destroyed once and for all! Our victory over his government was complete and final! I do believe our government had expected a certain level of violence too continue for quite some time in Iraq. It was just a matter of... "Who, what, when and where"!

 

Now, the magnification of the violence in Iraq through the lens of the media, helps the terrorist too incredibily achieve one of their primary goals - misleading the American public to the true nature of events on the ground in Iraq and sapping our will too hang on and not leave a mess that will surely come back to haunt us in the worst ways imaginable! That and rational and quite honest discussion's of our opinions amongst ourseleves has not really helped in the short term in this conflict!



"That and rational and quite honest discussion's of our opinions amongst ourseleves has not really helped in the short term in this conflict!"
 
 
Errr... that should've read as: That and the lack of rational and quite honest discussion's of our opinions amongst ourseleves has not really helped in the short term in this conflict!

 
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