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Subject: Iraqi officials report 16,273 deaths in 2006
EW3    1/1/2007 10:13:56 PM
But the Lancet said that 420,000 and 790,000 Iraqis have died as a result of war and political violence since the beginning of the US invasion in March, 2003. I look forward to the Lancet telling the Iraqis that they know more about their country than they do. (or the AP or the UN) Iraqi officials report 16,273 deaths 2 hours, 19 minutes ago Government officials on Monday reported that 16,273 Iraqi civilians, soldiers and police died violent deaths in 2006, a figure larger than an independent Associated Press count for the year by more than 2,500. The tabulation by the Iraqi ministries of Health, Defense and Interior, showed that 14,298 civilians, 1,348 police and 627 soldiers were killed in the violence that raged in the country last year. The Associated Press accounting, gleaned from daily news reports from Baghdad, arrived at a total of 13,738 deaths. The United Nations has said as many as 100 Iraqis die violently each day, which translates into 36,500 deaths annually
 
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Pseudonym       1/1/2007 11:06:15 PM
"Iraqi officials report 16,273 deaths

The United Nations has said as many as 100 Iraqis die violently each day, which translates into 36,500 deaths annually"

Let me guess, the extra 20,000 dead Iraqis got tossed in the Tigris.
 
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EW3       1/1/2007 11:29:46 PM
Even if you take the higher estimate by the UN, that institution of integrity, the issue is with Lancet.
Their numbers are off by an order of magnitude. 
As to the UN, if you follow recent numbers 100/day is the exception, not the rule.  Even in the worse post execution "rampage" the numbers are under 100/day.  To pretend they have been 100 day for the last  four years is just absurd.
Please provide a source for the 100 bodies everyday for the past 4 years.   I want names.
 
 
"Iraqi officials report 16,273 deaths


The United Nations has said as many as 100 Iraqis die violently each day, which translates into 36,500 deaths annually"

Let me guess, the extra 20,000 dead Iraqis got tossed in the Tigris.



 
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Pseudonym       1/1/2007 11:42:02 PM
My statement was actually posed as a sarcastic rhetorical question to the liberals.

I have watched the numbers, and I agree entirely.  I used to try to explain to my Democratic friends that less people are dying in Iraq now then did under Saddam, so I know all about the faults of the Lancet study and how it used under 100 samples to poll the deaths for an entire country, as well as the fact 100 dead Iraqi's a day is the exception.  Funny how when you go back and look at the number of dead the total was tallied with numbers that were later lowered due to faulty reporting.
 
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Bob       1/1/2007 11:58:11 PM

Funny how when you go back and look at the number of dead the total was tallied with numbers that were later lowered due to faulty reporting.
Funny how at least nowadays, the world actually gives a $^@# about the citizens of Iraq.

Oh wait, no they don't... the body count's another utility for more of the same old America / Bush hatred. "The sanctions kill millions of Iraqi babies!" version 2.0...

 
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Herc the Merc    Thats absolutely brilliant   1/2/2007 1:55:32 AM
>>
 
I think the issue is how many Americans die for this cause--if we do desire to save the world from itself-hey-we need a draft-saving Iraq from a thousand year old conflict with Shia and Sunni-neither of which give a hoot about us and most likely would kick us out once they established their own hegemony without even a thank you, much less a Bush square as say the beach cafes in France shows the sheer lunacy of this entire enterprise-and to boot we have to contend with reports that claim XXXXXXX Iraqi civilian deaths. Talk about a no win game. Noting a few of u folks are from the armed services and probably military experts, what is the correct course of action for a strong third party military when presented with an opportunity to participate in a no win game??? I think I would elect not to play.
 
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Plutarch       1/2/2007 11:44:02 PM
Now they're reporting 12,000 civilians killed and 1,539 soldiers.  The tabulations are by the Iraq minsistries of Health, Defense, and Interior.
 
Iraq reported Tuesday that more than 12,000 civilians were killed last year — the third full year since the U.S.-led invasion — with a dramatic rise in the last three months, when 5,000 died. Only about half as many Iraqi soldiers died in 2006 as American troops
 
 
 
 
However the UN reports a death toll double what the Iraqi government states.
 

While the U.S. government and military provide no death totals for Iraqis, the U.N. Assistance Ministry for Iraq, UNAMI, does keep a count based on reports it gathers from the Baghdad morgue, Ministry of Health, and Medico-Legal Institute.

The figures for November and December are not yet available from the U.N., but as of the end of October the organization had reported 26,782 deaths in the first 10 months of 2006, nearly double what the Iraqi government and the AP reported for the entire year.
 
If current trends in violence are acurate the death tolls from Nov and Dec will push the total close to 35,000 or about 96 per day for 2006.  It's intersting how the Ministry of Health gives one set of numbers to the Iraqi government and one set to the UN.
 
It's highly dubious that nearly half the deaths were recorded in the last three months when the Baghdad Morgue has been recording at least a couple thousand a month for much of the year.  The UN report seems to have the most accurate numbers---35,000 dead plus the 60,000 killed in the first two and a half years is 95,000 dead....
 
The Iraqi Minister of Health, in a statement made in Vienna in early November, indicated that as many as 150,000 Iraqi civilians might have been violently killed since 2003. But there are no known statistics for the early months of the U.S.-led invasion.
 
...Give or take.
 
 
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sentinel28a       1/3/2007 3:29:21 AM
I'd go with the Iraqi numbers.  The UN has proven itself quite willing to run fast and loose with numbers if it fits their political agenda--Oil For Palaces, anyone? (Kofi must be saddened at the loss of his son's greatest trading partner...)
 
Even so, "only" 16,000? That's too much.  One is too much, if it's someone you know.  I watched a family bury a brave Marine killed in Fallujah last week.  I'm sure they're not comforted by the fact that their son was Number 2,990, or that we lost more men at Okinawa in '45 than in the past four years in Iraq, or that casualty rates actually dropped in 2006.
 
That said, they still support the war, as their son did, because they believe it's worth fighting for.  The Iraqi police have taken horrific casualties and are still turning away volunteers.  I find it interesting that the people who want us to pull out are the ones who are furthest away from the tip of the spear and have the least to lose if we do.
 
The only way that casualty rate for Iraqis is going to drop is to try and win this thing, and convince the Iraqis that it's a lot better to call someone names on the internet rather than go and pick up the AK to settle their differences.  (Hell, we're still having trouble convincing young people in Southcentral LA that...)
 
 
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Plutarch    More Iraqi Government Numbers   1/8/2007 2:54:05 PM
Now the Iraqi government has a new number; 23,000 died violently in 2006 and that's still an incomplete number.
 
The Health Ministry's full-year death toll of 22,950, although incomplete, is higher than the 13,896 violent deaths of civilians, police officers and soldiers reported Jan. 1 by Iraq's ministries of defense, health and interior. The United Nations, in a November report, estimated that more than 28,000 Iraqi civilians had died violently in the first 10 months of 2006, but that count was disputed by the government. The differences in the numbers could not be reconciled.
 
How many seperate death tolls are those insipid Sadrists at the Health Ministry claiming?  Well the previous 14,000 didn't include the 10,000 Sunnis that we killed in our hospitals, and next week's totals may or may not include the number killed by the Mahdi Army.
 

The Health Ministry data are believed to be more reliable than those issued by other sources because they are based solely on death certificates. But the Health Ministry, as a policy, does not publicly release these statistics. The ministry is under the control of the Shiite religious party of Moqtada al-Sadr, whose Mahdi Army militia is behind much of the sectarian killing.



The United Nations reported 28,076 violent deaths of civilians in the first 10 months of 2006, including 3,709 killed in October, according to its latest report, issued in November. At that time, Iraqi government spokesman Ali Dabbagh disputed the U.N. numbers as "inaccurate and exaggerated" because they were not based on official government reports.
 
"Yes, we have casualties, but not that huge number of casualties," Health Minister Ali Hussein al-Shamari said on Iraqi television. "The true number might be a quarter that, although we feel sorry for those who are dying. But they want to mislead the world about the conditions in Iraq." During a visit to Vienna that month, however, he said as many as 150,000 Iraqi civilians had died since 2003 as a result of violence. Dabbagh, who is traveling outside of Iraq, was not available for comment on Friday.
 
I would still tend to believe the UN reports as those are not tainted like the Health Ministry reports are.
 
 
 
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Herc the Merc    Did u know   1/8/2007 2:56:28 PM
Since 9/11 50million kids died due to malnutrition worldwide.
 
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Plutarch    UN Numbers-34,000 civilians dead   1/16/2007 11:56:14 AM

Gianni Magazzeni, the chief of the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq in Baghdad, said 34,452 civilians were killed and 36,685 were wounded last year.

The Iraqi Health Ministry did not comment on the U.N. report, which was based on information released by the Iraqi government and hospitals. The government has disputed previous figures released by the U.N. as "inaccurate and exaggerated."

Iraqi government figures announced in early January put last year's civilian death toll at 12,357. When asked about the difference, Magazzeni said the U.N. figures were compiled from information obtained through the Iraqi Health Ministry, hospitals across the country and the Medico-Legal Institute in Baghdad.

"Without significant progress in the rule of law sectarian violence will continue indefinitely and eventually spiral out of control," he warned.

The U.N. report also said that 30,842 people were detained in the country as of Dec. 31, including 14,534 in detention facilities run by U.S.-led multinational forces.

It pointed to killings targeting police, who are seen by insurgents as collaborating with the U.S. effort in Iraq. The report said the Interior Ministry had reported on Dec. 24 that 12,000 police officers had been killed since the war started in 2003.

The report also painted a grim picture for other sectors of Iraqi society, saying the violence has disrupted education by forcing schools and universities to close as well as sending professionals fleeing from the country. At least 470,094 people throughout Iraq have been forced to leave their homes since the bombing in Samarra, according to the report.
 
 
 
Triple the number the Sadrists and transparent Iraqi government stated a few weeks ago.  What if even the UN numbers are low?  It wouldn't be unresaonable to think 50,000+ were killed this year which would put the total for the war over 100,000, a number that was villified two years ago when produced by the Lancet study.
 
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