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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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elcid    RE:Political/cultural change acceleration   9/4/2004 3:05:00 PM
Better to face problems/evil directly. Identify the bad, distinguish it from the not so bad, and engage it directly. In the end, everyone will respect and support that. Ever try to find an Afghan who liked the Taliban? Or an Iraqi who liked Saddam? If you do, you have found a thug. But you will have to search long and hard for an ordinary person - particularly a woman - who liked either one. Ceasar had it right - divide and conquer. Instead of letting radicals run whole countries, condemning everyone in them to poverty and political oppression, admit the truth - the enemy is the radicals - and isolate them from their own peoples - and crush them ruthlessly.
 
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aceofw    RE:Elcid   9/4/2004 5:40:14 PM
I haven't been following this topic too much, but some very wrong things were said here, and I believe it is my duty to correct them. Elcid, I don't know you very well, but (and don't take this too hard) I've heard you making quite a lot of rather ridiculous statements time and time again, but this time I'm gonna set things straight: I'm gonna answer you post-by-post: Jim is right: 1) Not "Sabra" – "Tzabar"= acrynum for-Tza'ir=young, Bari=healthy, Ra'anan=Fresh. 2) The IDF isn't "a bit strange" at all, like in every other army, the generals believe they know better than anybody else what to do, and they don't like others who give them advices they don't want and didn't ask for. 3) " they have a system of honorary rank", where the h*ll did you hear that? There is no such system, OTOH, there is the (very common worldwide) system of "having friends in high places". Things were desperate in 1948: "Some refugees were bussed directly from ships to the battlefield. Orders were given in something like eight languages. Anything that could shoot was pressed into service. " – You've got that part right, and that also explains the entire thing: When Egyptian spitfires are bombing Tel-Aviv, you buy whatever you can, from whoever you can, as fast as you can, and if those planes were what the Czechs offered (and they were practically the only ones who offered anything), that's what was bought. " It was a form of unreasonable nationalism" – "Unreasonable nationalism"? To refuse to buy weapons that were use to slaughter your family and friends as if they nothing more than insects? To refuse to deal with those who supported that act? I see nothing unreasonable about that. Note however, that as the years go by, and that generation is fading and a new one is rising, the knee-jerk reaction against Germany is steadily decreasing (I know many sons of holocaust survivors who still refuse to go to Germany, I know only a few grandchildren of holocaust survivors who refuses.). See Cast a Giant Shadow: Why? I mean, it's a nice movie and all, but it's HOLLYWOOD, the emphasis was not on historical correctness, for example, that raid you mentioned: 1) The attack was on the 2nd of June on kibbutz Negba in the Negev, Micky Marcus was appointed supreme commander of the Jerusalem theatre on the 28th of May. 2) The force of Jeeps belonged to the "Negev" brigade, Marcus commanded "Etzyoni" brigade, "Har'el" brigade, and brigade 7, so it is unlikely he led the assault. (I could be wrong about this, if so, feel free to correct me. But with hard evidence please, not movies). I am by no means trying to underestimate the contribution of this great man, he helped shape the IDF in its birth, but the movie just wasn't accurate.
 
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American Kafir    RE:That's elcid padding his resume of bs   9/4/2004 6:32:41 PM
>>Maybe. Maybe not. You are making an assumption. I get the impression perhaps you don't like to think someone who says things you disagree with might actually know what they are talking about. But they might.<< No, Elcid. You're getting the wrong impression. Let me make it clear: You're full of sh*t.
 
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chemist    RE:People are not stupid-chimming in   9/5/2004 5:02:20 AM
Scholar, you should try and see Thomas Barnett's presentation at NDU that C-Span showed back in June.(June 2nd to be precise). It goes into this, tangentially, and agrees with cid(again, tangentially) about the need for MP units and public affairs units(Barnett calls them back end units in his presentation). It's worth reading the transcripts just for themselves..
 
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FJV    RE:Elcid   9/5/2004 6:07:04 AM
"(I know many sons of holocaust survivors who still refuse to go to Germany, I know only a few grandchildren of holocaust survivors who refuses.)" I've seen something similar with someone who wouldn't work for Japanese, because his mother was prisoner in one of their concentration camps during WW2.
 
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realpolitik    Harboring anger against former aggressors   9/5/2004 11:59:45 AM
I've seen something similar with someone who wouldn't work for Japanese, because his mother was prisoner in one of their concentration camps during WW2. I frequently have to argue the point with my wife that Chinese should give up their hatred of Japan based on their actions before and during WW2. The Chinese government still actively propagandizes against Japan in PRC China. In Taiwan, many still harbor a dislike of Japan but respect it for its level of advancement. I tell my wife (who is from Xi'an, China - where the clay soldiers of Emperor Qin Shi Huang were discovered) - that people in Europe don't hate Germany anymore - to prove my point. (And I also bring up Chinese atrocities to prove that Japan doesn't have a monopoly on the idea.).
 
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FJV    RE:Harboring anger against former aggressors   9/5/2004 12:12:25 PM
It was not that this guy was particulary hateful of the Japanese, it was just that he couldn't get himself to break his mother's heart.
 
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Longbow    RE:Americans must respect Islam   9/6/2004 4:26:40 AM
Islam can bite me. In fact, I cant wait to meet someone saying I need to respect Islam so that I may make my point in person. "outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex" were fraternity pranks. Wrong, nevertheless, but harmless in the end. A gang of MUSLIM TERRORISTS GUNNING DOWN HUNDREDS OF FLEEING SECOND GRADERS in Beslan is an outrageous atrocity. You boys really but-ed the bunker on this deal. The Russians WILL hunt down and execute any one involved, their families, their neighbors, their pets, etc, etc. The terrorists have just given us a fantastic ally in this war. I can see it now. W calls Putin and says "We know where a lot of people that were involved are holed up. Want the coords?" I dont think the world can take any more "Peace and Tolerance" from you guys.
 
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rbrooku    RE:you must die as an infidel for disputing the Quran   9/6/2004 7:04:04 AM
"The Quran has a word for Muslims who do not actively seek jihad - holy war - against infidels. No, not 'moderate'. Apostate." Aiy yai yai! Hoo boy, some hot stuff here. EVERY religion has evil in its scriptures, when read literally. Westerners no longer believe in slavery, yet the Bible certainly condones slavery. It is reasonable moderation and tolerance, born from understanding religious scripture as allegory rather than literalism, that allows cultures to co-exist.
 
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rbrooku    RE:Americans must respect Islam   9/6/2004 7:15:05 AM
"Islam can bite me. In fact, I cant wait to meet someone saying I need to respect Islam so that I may make my point in person.... I dont think the world can take any more "Peace and Tolerance" from you guys." Dumb. That kind of bigotry only serves as a recuiting tool for Al Qaeda. You can kill till you rot, but if they keep getting new recruits it wont make any difference. But this does bring up a good point. I often ponder whether the Iraq invasion was a strategic blunder in the so called War on Terror. Seems that leaving Hussein contained and focusing on Afghanistan, where other muslims enthusiastically kill Al Qaeda, would have had a better chance of demoralizing and degrading the jihadis' ability to promote terror campaigns. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 
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