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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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swhitebull    FLUSHING a Quran Down the Toilet is NO Excuse to Commit Murder - Unless You are a Psychotic   5/18/2005 8:14:33 AM
In the CIVILIZED world, it's called "Proportionate Response" From Robert Spencer, an expert on Islamic Terrorism: http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18108 When in April EBay offered a consecrated host for sale, imagine if Catholics had rioted and seventeen people were killed. The media would have been full of stories about the dark side of the “Christian Right.” Imagine if, when Muslims desecrated the Tomb of Joseph in Nablus in 2000, destroying it with hammers, rampaging Jewish mobs had killed dozens of Palestinians. The establishment media response would again have inundated us with stories about the heroic Palestinians and their Israeli oppressors. Neither of those things really happened. But seventeen people have been killed and hundreds wounded in riots by Muslims since Newsweek published its story about an American interrogator flushing a Qur’an down the toilet at the detention center at Guantanamo Bay. And yet the media establishment seems preoccupied only with the fact that Newsweek, in publishing a false story that it has since retracted, has done a very bad thing. And that the Bush Administration must do something to calm tempers and soothe feelings in the Islamic world. There is no excusing Newsweek’s irresponsibility in this. But this is not really a story about media bias or carelessness at all. There is a much larger story that is getting hardly any attention at all. The gorilla in the living room that no one wants to notice, is that flushing a Qur’an down the toilet should not be grounds to commit murder. This aspect of the story is being ignored by spokesmen on both the Left and the Right. After the initial reports of rioting, Juan Cole sputtered, “Whatever goddam military genius came up with the bright idea of flushing the Koran down the toilet at Guantanamo should be court-martialed, and Bush had better get out there apologizing before this thing spirals further out of control.” On the other side of the political spectrum, Paul Marshall wrung his hands in National Review: “Even if Newsweek publishes a full retraction, the damage is done. Much of the Muslim world will regard it merely as a cover-up and feel reconfirmed in the view that America is at war with Islam.” Neither Cole nor Marshall, however, made any moral judgment about the rioters. Marshall was furious with Newsweek: “It would be charitable to think that if Newsweek had known how explosive the story was it may have held off until it had more confirmation. If this is true, it is an indication that the media’s widespread failure to pay careful attention to the complexities of religion not only misleads us about domestic and international affairs but also gets people killed.” Cole, for his part, directed his anger at the Bush Administration: “As a professional historian, I would say we still do not have enough to be sure that the Koran desecration incident took place. We have enough to consider it plausible. Anyway, the important thing politically is that some Muslims have found it plausible, and their outrage cannot be effectively dealt with by simple denial. That is why I say that Bush should just come out and say we can’t be sure that it happened, but if it did it was an excess, and he apologizes if it did happen, and will make sure it doesn’t happen again (if it did).” Neither one says anything whatsoever about a culture that condones — celebrates —wanton murder of innocent people, mayhem, and destruction in response to the alleged and unproven destruction of a book. The question here is one of proportionate response. If a Qur’an had indeed been flushed, Muslims would have justifiably been offended. They may justifiably have considered the perpetrators boors, or barbarians, or hell-bound unbelievers. They may justifiably have issued denunciations accordingly. But that is all. To kill people thousands of miles away who had nothing to do with the act, and to fulminate with threats and murder against the entire Western world, all because of this alleged act, is not just disproportionate. It is not just excessive. It is mad. And every decent person in the world ought to have the courage to stand up and say that it is mad. I suspect that even Juan Cole and Paul Marshall, somewhere in the back of their minds, know that it is mad too. But why don’t they say so? Because Rule #1 in the establishment (Left and Right) view of this present conflict is that it has nothing to do with Islam. To bring a moral judgment to bear upon Muslim people, or to explore the ways in which Islam fuels the conflict, is therefore absolutely forbidden. This kind of analysis, dominant as it is in the media, does the Western world an enormous disservice. The reaction to the Newsweek story in the Muslim world only shows how critical it is that the elements of Islam that give rise to fanaticism and violence be examined and confronted. Lives are at st
 
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swhitebull    And an Excellent Source of the Dangers of Respecting Radical Islam    5/18/2005 8:16:17 AM
http://www.jihadwatch.org/ swhitebull - and if you DONT like the source, too bad.
 
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swhitebull    Where Was the Outrage When THIS Happened?    5/18/2005 8:48:30 AM
THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY As Islamist groups rage and riot and declare holy war over Newsweek’s now-retracted “Quran desecration” story, it may be helpful, for the sake of clarity, to remember what happened in April 2002 when Palestinian terrorists took over Bethlehem’s Church of the Nativity http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htm and held priests and nuns hostage for weeks. On April 24, the Jerusalem Post reported on the damage that the PA forces were causing: Three Armenian monks, who had been held hostage by the Palestinian gunmen inside Bethlehem’s Church of the Nativity, managed to flee the church area via a side gate yesterday morning. They immediately thanked the soldiers for rescuing them. They told army officers the gunmen had stolen gold and other property, including crucifixes and prayer books, and had caused damage.... One of the monks, Narkiss Korasian, later told reporters: “They stole everything, they opened the doors one by one and stole everything....They stole our prayer books and four crosses...they didn’t leave anything. Thank you for your help, we will never forget it.” Israeli officials said the monks said the gunmen had also begun beating and attacking clergymen.41 When the siege finally ended, the PA soldiers left the church in terrible condition: The Palestinian gunmen holed up in the Church of the Nativity seized church stockpiles of food and “ate like greedy monsters” until the food ran out, while more than 150 civilians went hungry. They also guzzled beer, wine, and Johnnie Walker scotch that they found in priests’ quarters, undeterred by the Islamic ban on drinking alcohol. The indulgence lasted for about two weeks into the 39-day siege, when the food and drink ran out, according to an account by four Greek Orthodox priests who were trapped inside for the entire ordeal.... The Orthodox priests and a number of civilians have said the gunmen created a regime of fear. Even in the Roman Catholic areas of the complex there was evidence of disregard for religious norms. Catholic priests said that some Bibles were torn up for toilet paper, and many valuable sacramental objects were removed. “Palestinians took candelabra, icons and anything that looked like gold,” said a Franciscan, the Rev. Nicholas Marquez from Mexico.42 A problem that arose during the siege again shows Christian fear of Muslim domination. Two Palestinian gunmen in the church were killed, and the PA wanted to bury them in the basilica. “With two Muslim bodies inside the Church of the Nativity, Christianity could be facing an absolute disaster in Bethlehem,” said Canon Andrew White, the special representative of the Archbishop of Canterbury in the Middle East. “It would be catastrophic if two Muslim martyrs were buried in the church. It could lead to a situation like that in Nazareth,” he said.43 Only after intensive mediation efforts were plans to bury the bodies inside abandoned. swhitebull
 
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Nichevo    RE:Islam must respect itself and others!   5/18/2005 9:04:11 AM
I take your point, but without going into details it is not the same. For ever expression of anger (and death threats are usually just talk), there is a Pi$$ Christ or a Virgin Mary with elephant dung, or a trampling of the American fglag, and we all have to grit our teeth and accept it as free speech. Nobody to my knowledge has murdered Andres Serrano, or even keyed his car.
 
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PlatypusMaximus    RE:Islam must be nuked   5/19/2005 12:33:25 AM
5/13/2005 Clip No. 669 Palestinian Friday Sermon by Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris: Muslims Will Rule America and Britain, Jews Are a Virus Resembling AIDS The following are excerpts from a Friday sermon on Palestinian Authority TV. The preacher is Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris. PA TV aired this sermon on May 13, 2005 Ibrahim Mudeiris: Allah has tormented us with "the people most hostile to the believers" – the Jews. "Thou shalt find that the people most hostile to the believers to be the Jews and the polytheists." Allah warned His beloved Prophet Muhammad about the Jews, who had killed their prophets, forged their Torah, and sowed corruption throughout their history. With the establishment of the state of Israel, the entire Islamic nation was lost, because Israel is a cancer spreading through the body of the Islamic nation, and because the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers. You will find that the Jews were behind all the civil strife in this world. The Jews are behind the suffering of the nations. Ask Britain what it did to the Jews in the early sixth century. What did they do to the Jews? They expelled them, tortured them, and prevented them from entering Britain for more than 300 years. All this was because of what the Jews did in Britain. Ask France what it did to the Jews. They tortured them, expelled them, and burned their Talmud, because of the civil strife the Jews wanted to spark in France, in the days of Louis XIX. Ask Portugal what it did to the Jews. Ask Czarists Russia, which welcomed the Jews, who plotted to kill the Czar - so he massacred them. But don't ask Germany what it did to the Jews. It was the Jews who provoked Nazism to wage war against the entire world, when the Jews, using the Zionist movement, got other countries to wage an economic war on Germany and to boycott German merchandise. They provoked Russia, Britain, France, and Italy. This enraged the Germans toward the Jews, leading to the events of those days, which the Jews commemorating today. But they are committing worse deeds than those done to them in the Nazi war. Yes, perhaps some of them were killed and some burned, but they are inflating this in order to win over the of the media and gain the world's sympathy. The worst crimes in history were committed against the Jews, yet these crimes are no worse than what the Jews are doing in Palestine. What was done to the Jews was a crime, but isn't what the Jews are doing today in the land of Palestine not a crime?! Look at modern history. Where has Great Britain gone? Where has Czarist Russia gone? Where has France gone - France, which almost ruled the entire world? Where is Nazi Germany, which massacred millions and ruled the world? Where did all these superpowers go? He who made them disappear will make America disappear too, God willing. He who made Russia disappear overnight is capable of making America disappear and fall, Allah willing. We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world – except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history. The day will come when everything will be relieved of the Jews - even the stones and trees which were harmed by them. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew.
 
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mustavaris    More of this...   5/19/2005 4:10:14 AM
Arent they a bit soft-skinned...? http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-05-19T064742Z_01_N19666250_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-KORAN-DC.XML LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A Muslim group on Wednesday demanded a public apology from online bookseller Amazon.com for its part in delivering a used copy of the Koran with the words "Death to all Muslims" scrawled across the inside cover. Los Angeles graduate student Azza Basarudin, who ordered a used copy of the holy book through Amazon.com from a third -party, said that when she discovered the message "I actually dropped the book." "I was taken back to after Sept. 11 and my fear of even leaving my apartment," Basarudin told a news conference. The Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) said Basarudin brought the matter to them about two weeks ago. The Council contacted Amazon.com who have apologized to Basarudin, refunded her money, sent out a new copy of the Koran and issued her a gift certificate. Amazon said it had also suspended Pennsylvania-based Bellwether Books, which packaged and mailed the Koran in question, from selling the Koran and had asked for an internal investigation. But the MPAC said it wanted Amazon to issue a public apology and condemnation and establish a zero-tolerance policy toward sellers and employees. "It is important for business leaders to come out with a zero tolerance policy. Amazon has a responsibility to make a public apology and condemnation," said spokeswoman Edina Lekovic. Lekovic said the desecrated Koran was part of a "cult of hate that may exist and may be on the rise." On Monday, Newsweek magazine retracted a report that U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay had flushed at least one copy of the Koran down a toilet to try to make detainees talk. The report triggered protests across the Muslim world in which 16 people died
 
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mustavaris    To Nichevo   5/19/2005 4:22:33 AM
Yes, I understand completely, but personally I´d take ANY death threat seriously. Especially from any religious people. they have guaranteed their after-life so they are more or less random-hazards. When such is said a certain line has been passed. Of course it is different, but arent those who do such threats, supposed to be Christians? And a true Christian wouldnt do that... My point is that the Christianity hasnt gone far from the time when it was just an intolerable blood thirsty cult, the western society has gone a bit longer journey.. So in princip I have hope that Islamic world can do the same, but their problem is that they have to do it a lot faster, in few generations, or we are really going to have problems. They need to refrom, their religion isnt more against such than Christianity was, so its achievable.. Will it happen? I hope so, but its not a sure thing. Like in the West they´ll have to reform their societies first, the religion follows the people. Democracy, freedom of speech, human rigths... unreformed religion cannot prevail in such society that honours before-mentioned things. Cheers.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris   5/19/2005 1:26:30 PM
>>With the establishment of the state of Israel, the entire Islamic nation was lost, because Israel is a cancer spreading through the body of the Islamic nation, and because the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS<< This reminds me of the neo-Nazi’s I spoke with in Idaho. It’s the same kind of weird, convoluted doublethink. Things were too expensive in California because of the Mexican illegal immigrants were buying everything, and they were too cheap in Texas because the Mexican illegal immigrants were driving down wages. The Sheik does the same thing with the Jews. It’s all the same kind of ravening hatred. It was opposed in the 1940’s and it should be opposed now, I don’t want to be less of a man than my father.
 
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swhitebull    MORE Selective Outrage   5/19/2005 9:18:33 PM
From Whalid Phares, MSNBC Commentator, Professor of Middle East Studies and overall good guy in exposing Islamic fanaticism (http://www.defenddemocracy.org/biographies/biographies.htm ) One element lost in all the coverage of the jihadist-inspired riots is the rioters'' utter hypocrisy. Their concerns for the Muslim holy book did not manifest when they burned mosques to the ground in Pakistan over the past few months. Nor did they launch demonstrations after they destroyed mosques in Iraq throughout the year. There were certainly hundreds of Korans burned into ashes. (It didn''t hurt that the owners of these mosques were Shi''ites.) A couple of decades earlier, Hafez Assad''s brutal brigades leveled off the mosques of the city of Hama. Thousands of Korans were destroyed (along with 20,000 Sunnis). Yet, the Arab and Islamic world didn''t raise a ruckus. The selective outrage over the destroyed Korans is not theological but political. It is only when the Islamists want to wage a jihad for their holy book that infractions begin to make any difference to them. When Arab militias raids black Muslim villages in Darfur, and destroy them, along with their holy books, that is acceptable, but one sentence in an article published in a U.S. magazine deserves a whole holy war? Who are we kidding here? swhitebull
 
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American Kafir    RE:More of this...   5/19/2005 11:40:54 PM
>>It is important for business leaders to come out with a zero tolerance policy. Amazon has a responsibility to make a public apology and condemnation," said spokeswoman Edina Lekovic. Lekovic said the desecrated Koran was part of a "cult of hate that may exist and may be on the rise."<< Cult of hate? Shut that dhimmi whore up. The only thing I hate is Islam. It's not my fault people claim it.
 
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