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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:Merciful christian idol   5/12/2005 2:34:40 PM
>> God slaughters, is vengeful, does evil, defiles, destroys and creates woes. How kind is the Christian idol Ex 32:14, Num 31:1-18, Deut 2:30,34, 7:2,16, 20:10-20, 1 Sam 6:19, Job 42:11, Isa 45:7, Jer 18:5,8,11, 26:3,13,19, 42:10-11, Lam 3:38, Ezek 6:12-13, 20:25-26, Amos 3:6, Nahum 1:2, Jonah 3:10 << There is an old joke in baptist circles about someone who quoted part of Matthew 27:5 (...and he went away and hanged himself.") and then flipped a few pages over to quote part of Luke 10:37 (..."go thou and do likewise."). In the joke this supposedly proves that Jesus wants us all to commit suicide. This seems to be your style of exegesis. Let’s look at some of your examples of God’s supposed perfidy: EX 32:14 – Let’s set the scene. God frees and saves the Children of Israel from Egypt (the superpower of the day), saying that in return He wants an exclusive relationship with them. Moses goes up the Mountain of God to get the details of this arrangement. While he’s gone, the people make an idol and start worshipping it in riotous abandon. Moses comes down sees this pandemonium. God tells him that He’ll kill them all and start over again with Moses. Moses persuades God to relent. God's mercy prevails. That is Exodus 32:14 NUM 31:1-18 – Let’s set the scene. God frees and saves the Children of Israel from Egypt (the superpower of the day), saying that in return He wants an exclusive relationship with them. See a pattern emerging? The Midianites see this large people moving through their land. They see that war doesn’t work against them, so they hire the prophet Balaam. He finds that he can’t curse Israel, but says that if Midian can separate Israel from the exclusive relationship with their God, then Israel can be destroyed. Midian follows Balaam’s plan. Midian’s seduction of Israel is both moral and spiritual; and it is successful. A plague strikes Israel because they turn away from their God. It kills thousands of people. Israel, in turn, declares war against Midian. War is harsh in those days. It was, after all, 3,200 years before the Geneva Convention. DEU 2:30 – Let’s set the scene. Israel needs to pass through the land of Heshbon, a city state on the western side of the Jordan valley. Israel asks Sihon, King of Heshbon for this privilege. Israel says it will not allow its people to harm the land, use the water or damage the fields. Sihon had fought other kingdoms and won, conquering much land, and in his pride he refuses. God allows Sihon’s pride to overrule common sense and a sacred obligation for hospitality. Sihon loses his kingdom when he goes out in his pride to fight Israel. DEU 7:2 – Let’s set the scene. God frees and saves the Children of Israel from Egypt (the superpower of the day), saying that in return He wants an exclusive relationship with them. See that pattern again? This means they are to be culturally and religiously different than the people around them. The book of Deuteronomy is Moses giving them a “pre-game” pep talk. The problem is that the land they are going to conquer is comprehensively degraded. Temple prostitution (male and female) is common. So is child sacrifice. A common religious/cultural festival features the incineration of a living infant while the communicants have a public orgy. Sex AND violence, something for everyone. Now, as a Baptist, I do have to admit that I would have a hard time sleeping through these services, but that’s the only good thing I can say about them. These degraded religious images and themes run through the culture and commerce of the society. Some examples: Where would I have business contracts sealed? Why, in the temple that has the male and female cult prostitutes. Where would I buy meat? Why, in the temples where they sacrifice animals every day. Where would I borrow money for my next crop? Why, in the temples where all those people pay for prostitutes. The temples then loan out the money to earn interest. Another problem is that since the languages are similar so are the religious terminologies. Ba’al is the god of thunderstorms and head of the local pantheon. The word “Ba’al” means “lord”. So does the term “adoni”, which refers to the God of the Israelites. As a matter of fact the suffix “al” in Ba’al corresponds to the Hebrew syllable “el” which is part of many Hebrew names for their God. With all these similarities it would be easy to cross pollinate between the religions. So how would Israel stay distinct? The answer is that Israel would have to wage ruthless war to push away these degrading (yet seductive) religious and cultural practices. Those who would not leave would have to die. I SAM 6:19 - Let’s set the scene. God frees and saves the Children of Israel from Egypt (the superpower of the day)> He then brings them into Canaan; saying that in return He wants an exclusive relationship with them. See that pattern again? The tribal confederacy of Israel ignores the exclusive relati
 
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Pars    RE:Merciful christian idol   5/12/2005 5:51:00 PM
I tried to read both Quran and Bible twice. Failed miserably. (God please forgive me) but those books are boring.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:Merciful christian idol - mustavaris   5/12/2005 8:27:37 PM
>> God orders people to slaughter their own relatives because they rejected Moses' religion; 3000 killed. Moses tells the killers that God would bless them for doing this by making them ordained for his service. Pretty nasty, isnt it? Exodus 32:27-29. << This is actually part of a larger story. In Genesis chapter 34 the prince of Shechem rapes Dinah, daughter of Jacob the patriarch. Simeon and Levi, two of his sons and founders of tribes, trick the people of Shechem. Then they and their tribes take up weapons to fight for vengeance. Remember that phrase about vengeance belonging to God? They slaughter the people of Shechem and loot their city. They are disinherited for this (Genesis chapter 49). Fast forward to Exodus chapter 32. The tribes of Israel are camping before the Mountain of God. Moses and Joshua come down from the holy mountain to see their people worshipping a golden idol in riotous abandon. The people are out of control. They are open before their enemies. This has to be stopped at any cost. No matter who is doing it, no matter how bloody, this must be stopped. Moses calls to the people for anyone who will stand for the real God who saved Israel. Levi’s descendants take up weapons once again; but this time it is for God, not for vengeance. This time they are rewarded. The consequence of their earlier disobedience is transformed into a blessing. They still have no territory in the new land but they will serve God and His temple forever. There is symmetry in their disinheritance and their new inheritance. They are disinherited for taking up the sword, and they are blessed for taking up the sword. The difference is motivation. Disinheritance is for disobedience of God’s standards. Blessing is for obedience to God. Oh, and what about Simeon? They don’t respond to Moses’ call. Their tribe’s disinheritance is not transformed. They disappear from the Biblical account, absorbed into the tribe of Judah. Whether you believe the biblical account is true or not, it is a masterfully woven tale. It is dramatic, subtle and balanced. Whether it is history or fiction, it was written by a genius.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Merciful christian idol - mustavaris   5/13/2005 2:38:25 AM
>>This is actually part of a larger story. In Genesis chapter 34 the prince of Shechem rapes Dinah, daughter of Jacob the patriarch. Simeon and Levi, two of his sons and founders of tribes, trick the people of Shechem. Then they and their tribes take up weapons to fight for vengeance. Remember that phrase about vengeance belonging to God? They slaughter the people of Shechem and loot their city. They are disinherited for this (Genesis chapter 49).<< Arab terrorists should thank Allah their chosen enemies are at least culturally Jewish and Christian. Ask the Uyghur. Or the Chechens. Or the Kurds.
 
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Clausewitz    RE:European Union and Turkey - to Pars   5/13/2005 5:00:08 AM
Pars wrote: "But there were EU guarantees to Turkey that when all conditions are met, Turkey will be accepted." Sorry. But it seems that some politicians - as always -were dishonest. The only thing that counts is that the european people never ever gave Turkey any garantee. And the eurpean people have are not interestest what politicians said some years ago without asking the european people. So lets build a qualified partnership as a substitute for turkish EU-membership. Thats all you can get. Take it.
 
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Pars    RE:European Union and Turkey - to Pars   5/13/2005 6:53:22 AM
Turks are part of Europe. Western Europeans can deny this to some point but not ethernally. Turkey will be at EU someday. Maybe you are right that not in our generation.
 
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sorkoi2003    RE: Once more into the twilight zone   5/13/2005 2:49:16 PM
"Arab terrorists should thank Allah their chosen enemies are at least culturally Jewish and Christian. Ask the Uyghur. Or the Chechens. Or the Kurds." Interesting point- but last time I looked the Russians were Christians (like the Serbs- remember Bosina). Also, was not anti-semitism fairly commonplace Christian countries until mid- 20th century? The pogroms and the holocaust were they not conducted by people from Christian cultures? Just wondering. Look forward to any clarification you may be able to offer.
 
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timon_phocas    RE: Once more into the twilight zone   5/13/2005 6:33:59 PM
>>The pogroms and the holocaust were they not conducted by people from Christian cultures? << Actually, the first recorded pogrom was in Alexandria in 39/40 CE. The Jewish philosopher Pilo of Alexandria was sent from the Jewish community there to protest before Emperor Caligula in Rome.
 
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Pars    RE: Once more into the twilight zone   5/13/2005 9:32:48 PM
Anti-Semitism is still common in USA. As hating Jews is a crime (rightfully so) now in USA, racists channeled their hatred towards another Semite people the Arabs. Hating Arabs is also in theory a hate crime but of course in practise things are different.
 
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timon_phocas    RE: Once more into the twilight zone   5/13/2005 10:02:58 PM
>>Anti-Semitism is still common in USA. As hating Jews is a crime (rightfully so) now in USA, racists channeled their hatred towards another Semite people the Arabs.<< US laws outlaw racial and ethnic discrimination in the marketplace. What this means is that people cannot be penalized (charged more or served less) in the marketplace on the basis of their origin. As laws go, tt is noble in intent and imperfect in execution. Historically speaking, it is also unprecedented in the history of the world. US laws also add penalties for ordinary criminal acts that have the added exacerbation of ethnic or racial hatred. These laws are for all races and ethnicities. It is very difficult to apply these laws. It is a fairly straightforward process to prove (or disprove) beyond a reasonable doubt if someone has hit someone else over the head. It is very difficult to prove what the assailant was thinking as he hit his victom over the head. >>Hating Arabs is also in theory a hate crime but of course in practise things are different.<< Alleged instances of anti-Arabic hate crimes following the 9/11 assault were swiftly investigated by police and justice officials. Very few of them turned out to be true, and many of the most publicized were proven to be outright frauds. I doubt that any mosque in America would want to trade its treatment here with that of any Coptic church in Egypt.
 
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