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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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Uchiita    RE:Americans must respect Islam-Uchiita   11/30/2004 10:31:58 PM
Have to disagree with you there mate. Do you kow the seven scripts of Arabic? KNow the Koran chapter and verse? Can you eludciate the hadiths for us? Most Americans you'll find, have never read the Koran or hadiths, and can only misquote, fifth hand, garbled verses on having virgins in the afterlife. Clerics, my posterior. What the average western Joe knows about Islam you could write on my left fingernail. I agree that America has done some good on the planet. Unfortunately, as Shakespeare rightly pointed out in "Julius Caesar" "The evil that men do live on, the good is...interred with their bones." If you wish to be an effective analyst, or to be able to comment on these issues in a way which will convince others, you must first domonstrate your knowledge of the subject. Or have lived with the poeple you are talking about. I'm wondering how many muslims you have eaten with, my friend? Uchiita
 
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Uchiita    RE:What have the Muslims done for us?   11/30/2004 10:37:21 PM
And the university system, lets not forget that. And we owe the European renaisance to those Arabs who actually wrote things down. Have the cathedrals in Europe were built using Arab craftsmen too. Communists ... Sputnik came before Spudnick. Actually my favourite story from the space race goes something like this: ASTRONAUT: Look, we got this pen that writes in zero gravity! COSMONAUT: Bet that was expensive! ASTRONAUT: Sure it was, it cost hundreds of thousands of dollar to develop! COSMONAUT: We use pencils.
 
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SGTObvious    It's a myth, Uchiita   11/30/2004 10:59:49 PM
The "space pen" didn't cost NASA a dime to develop. It was provided free by a company (Fisher) looking for a marketing angle. And NASA had a reason to ban pencils. (which the Russians did as well, BTW, in fact, they bought the Fisher pens!) They were worried that pencils can burn in the high O2 environment of a capsule. The Fisher Pen was fireproof. Weird Trivia: In a deal with the Russians and the QVC home shopping network, the pen was the first product ever sold from space, via the MIR station. Order yours Today!: http://www.spacepen.com/usa/index2.htm
 
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SGTObvious    RE:What have the Muslims done for us?   11/30/2004 11:16:00 PM
"So how do you explain the entomology of the following words are from Islamicate languages: algebra, chemistry, algorithms... how circumnavigation of Africa in 1450s, or maping of human circulatory system in 11th century or coffee houses... I could go on but it would turn into a paradoy of the Monty Python sketch in the Life of Brian... " My my. Islam overran and essentially kidnapped the flower of Byzantine, Indian, and much of European civilization, and in the next three centuries, Islam snuffs out the last vestiges of their light, and you wonder why these things are known by the names of the Conquerers and not the Inventors? Clue time: Why do we call native Americans "Indians"? The Conquerors get to name stuff. What Islam takes credit for, others produced. I have a rather dim witted history book that somehow notes, without seeing the amazing coincidence, that the "Golden Age of Mathematics in India" ended, astonishingly enough, with the Muslim invasion, which was followed by a short lived Muslim mathematical rennaisance- but the book never makes the connection! I garantee you, if the Muslims ever conquer Middle America, the future history books will describe the time immediately thereafter as a "great renaissance of Muslim agriculture". The fact is, they plundered alot, and invented squat. Why else would you think that somehow, primitive, backwards, pathetic barbarian Europe was suddenly able to acquire everything from clocks to cannons to ocean going sailing ships and steam engines? Why do you think it is that the historical record shows- and I can go into great detail on this- MASSIVE changes in the European lifestyle between 700 AD and 1700 AD, and virtually NO CHANGE in the Arab lifestyle? Good Lord, half the muslim world or more is living in medieval conditions TODAY, you'd think an advanced civilization might have worked its way up, oh, maybe a century or so in the past millenium? Even the muslims admit that their Golden Age ended relatively quickly after their conquests ended. They just never draw the obvious conclusions from that. But the economic lesson is the same as the one drawn from the rapid decline of Spain after the plundering by the Conquistadors: STOLEN WEALTH is ephemeral, and fades quickly. BUILT WEALTH provides a foundation for future growth, and lasts.
 
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Cocoonboy    RE:What have the Muslims done for us? Nothing.   11/30/2004 11:54:45 PM
Uchiita, how many more boring times do I have to read the bit about how Moslems created some book of fantastic mathematics that was STOLEN by the EVIL dummies who went on to PUT A MAN ON THE MOON ?You are selective with your history so who cares ?Anyhow, long before any of us there was ROME.Thousands of years it lasted.They practically invented every word or thought you and I now think we invented.I am willing to bet you don't live in the MIDDLE EAST, but instead live in a nice place where you can gripe without getting your head chopped off..
 
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Uchiita    RE:What have the Muslims done for us? Plenty, come out of your cocoon!    12/1/2004 3:46:08 AM
The western philosophical traditions (math, humanities, sciences etc) our thinking is determined by the Greeks ... not so much the Romans, who were fairly good at military conquest but surprisingly bad at scientific discoveries. The slaves who tutored patrician children in Roman society were actually Greek, and much of their learning was preserved by Arab scholars, as Rome and Alexandria were destroyed in various sackings. The Romans produced a couple of good philosphers (I like Cicero). However, by the time they were making their conquests, all the resources were going into the military machine and NOT into their education system. (That sounds familiar, doesn't it?) Statesmen learned government and rhetoric, but their discoveries were nothing compared with the Greeks. The Arab traditions preserved much of the Greek learning which was lost when Rome was sacked or later suppressed by the Church who entered a rather depressing and paranoid "earth is flat" phase. Much of the Arab and Greek philosophy and discoveries were made available after the fall of Constantinople and was one of the sparks for the renaissance. Without it, I doubt whether the great engineers like Da Vinci or Michelangelo could have done what they did. In fact, Islam places more importance on intellectual pursuits than holy war¡¦ consider this hadith, which has a clear line of authority (since you know enough to be a cleric then you will be in no doubt what this means in Islamic thought) from the Baha~r al-anwa~r, volume 2, page 16. It reads in transliterated Arabic as: Idha~ ka~na yawm-u al-qi~ya~mat-i wuzzina mida~d-u al-¡®ulama~`-i bi-dima~`i al-shuhada~`-i fa-yurajjih-u mida~d-u al-¡®ulama~`-i ¡®ala~ dima~`i al-shuhada~`-i Meaning that: When the Day of Judgment comes forth, the pen of scholars is measured against the blood of martyrs; verily, the pen of scholars exceeds/outweighs the blood of martyrs. In other words, the ink of a scholar is worth more to God than the blood of a martyr. A wise thought we could ALL take heed of.
 
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Uchiita    RE:It's a myth, Uchiita   12/1/2004 3:54:38 AM
Probably, it's still a great story though, ( and note, I said "story" not "proven and verified fact") the point being that the russian design was actually better in many cases than the American, and yes, the put things in space before the Americans. (Ah yes, Cocoon is SO keen to bring up the moon landings, but the Russians, those inferior communists, put a man in space first. A fact, no doubt, that continually irks people like him.
 
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Uchiita    RE:What have the Muslims done for us?Sgt.   12/1/2004 4:15:44 AM
Hi there - There is another explaination, and that is that the philosphies and arts were funded well during the renaisence... No one is arguing that the golden age of Islam did not pass - what we are saying is that it is stupid and unfair to say that muslims have contributed nothing to the world. Have you seen the architecture? The art? The moorish medicine was a zillion times more effective than medieval Europe's .. come on. They had incredibly advanced civilisations - yes, they were civilised, some would argue as much as we are today. It is a pure, unfounded insult to say that Muslims are not. In effect what you are trying to do is justify the west's appauling treatment of muslims on the basis that they are somehow inferior. Well, that's nothing new. Hitler used that one about the Jews, the US used the same line about the blacks. In fact, the first movie ever screened in teh White House (for Woodrow Wilson) was about a black man who get's his just deserts from the KKK. Time to get real, methinks. We are no better than they. We have our facists and mosters, they have them. They have they're just and civilised people, and we have them. And, to answer cocoon's alegation that I write from somewhere safe, I wuold say that I lived inside a muslim community for two years, in the developing world and NO ONE threatened to chop off my head. They are some of the most civilised people I know. Where I live just now is not exactly safe, given that it has heavy artillary guns trained on it as we speak.
 
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Uchiita    Dyslexic day   12/1/2004 4:18:05 AM
Sorry lads about the typos ... my dyslexia is really bad today. That's what you get for selling your soul to Santa. ;-)
 
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Cocoonboy    RE:It's a myth, Uchiita   12/1/2004 5:46:14 AM
Why would I be irked if the Russians put a man in space first ? Let's face it, both Russia and America got there rocket ideas from captured German scientists. Still,that has nothing to do with the Middle East huh ? Of course you know all sorts of nice Moslems. Too bad they all hide and never seem to support freedom eh ? By the way , you really think that some easy kiddie math and so-so astronomy from the Middle East led to all of the wonders of today ? Let's pretend that Islamics invented math and created giant libraries and so on. My question is why did they never do anything with it ? Are you saying the CRUSADERS came and took it all away and after that you guy's decided to quit learning ? Forever ? Nice to debate with you on yet another invention Islamics had nothing to do with called the computer. Ta !.
 
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