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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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elcid    RE:Regime change and Invasion of Iraq....    10/1/2004 4:24:43 PM
Sork: IF Clinton had re-initiated hostilities against Iraq in a more timely manner, the option of invading Iraq would no longer have been germane post 911. IF Clinton had allowed OBL to be extradited from Sudan (they expelled him instead when we refused to take him) 911 likely would not have happened at all. Your anger is as misplaced as your assumptions are. Bush and his team were forced to deal with leftovers from past failures, including the failures of the previous Bush in 1991 (prematurely ending the offensive, agreeing to an armistice that didn't require handing over Saddam because CIA said he would surely fall anyway). After 911 it is too late to fix these errors - Republican or Democrat. Action was required. And Iraq was NOT the FIRST place we invaded - so your position is quite false it was our overriding priority. The move was made a year and a half later, after extended deliberation, and international consultation (something a number of people involved insisted upon). Asserting it somehow happened differently does not make it so. And it does lend aide and comfort to the enemy to show division about this - when it can do no good whatever. We went already. It is too soon to know enough to do a historical review, and the issues are too hot to do so in an unbiased way. We have a war to win, or several if you prefer. Since the enemy will show you no quarter, why don't you help fight - at least in the psychological sense of giving him no support?
 
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elcid    RE:Post-9/11 Assescessment Who we really should ahve invaded   10/1/2004 4:34:51 PM
Rebrooku - WHAT country makes more sense to invade than Iraq? Are YOU advocating we invade someone in 2003? I think THIS is an attempt to distract the argument from Iraq. I tried and failed to make the case for invading North Korea. And, surely, North Korea would not have had much impact on radical Islamic terrorists - it only would cut them off from a source of weapons. The geostrategic position of Iraq that Chemist pointed out seems to have eluded you: there is no better option from that perspective. Even if we adopted (we have not) the position of a friend of mine - eliminate dictatorships, one at at time - we would always be vulnerable to the charge "why this dictatorship and not that one over there?" And no matter where we fight, it is always blood for some practical reason. As a US Navy sailor I have no problem fighting for oil or vital sea lanes: why do you? Failing to fight for them would seem to be strategic folly. I only object to saying this war was about oil when it really was not: and I am testifying it was not - according to both government and industry people directly in the know the whole charge is 180 degrees out of sync with reality. The fact is you are ignoring the existence of a general war, and the need to prosecute it. If Iraq was a convenient place to make be Step 2, what is wrong with that? Someone has to decide what to do - or do you prever we just dither and wait for the next attack?
 
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elcid    RE:This will make it Simple - We invaded Iraq - Because We Could    10/1/2004 4:40:10 PM
I don't follow your remarks ReB. You write as if I know things about your thinking which are obvious. But I do have this little idea for your consideration: most of the people who really do analysis and policy discussion in a serious way are barely influenced by media at all - because they have nearly zero time to listen to it. I myself have no access whatever to television news, which I regard as something of an oxymoron since it self defined as "infotainment." I prefer print media and shortwave, somewhat supplimented by internet access to newspapers and magazines/journals worldwide. It was, according to a former Clinton chief of staff, the Clinton idea to make policy decisions based on polls: no one I ever met of any political stripe thinks that was a good idea. Do you?
 
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elcid    RE:This will make it , well, less complicated-uchiita   10/1/2004 4:45:03 PM
You are ignoring what Chemist told you about me (in another thread). I am always serious, and I do not even know what "dark humor" is. I am the perfect strait man - because I really never get it I never have to pretend I don't. And no, I never said Bush lied. Bush is popular because he obviously does not lie. He is not as skilled as Reagan at projecting his simple attitude, but it is fairly obvious nevertheless, to anyone who does not "know" he "must be" lieing before ever he opens his mouth. I never was very impressed with him, but I refuse to be accused of saying he lies: he does not. The things he was wrong about also fooled the left as much as it did him - so stop pretending it did not.
 
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rbrooku    RE:Query for Rebrooku   10/1/2004 4:57:09 PM
"We are in a war we did not begin." Afghanistan? Yes. Iraq? No. That was entirely the choosing of the present Administration. That they convinced others to go along is not salient. Are you going to keep making arguments based on this fallacious point?
 
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rbrooku    RE:This will make it Simple - We invaded Iraq - Because We Could    10/1/2004 5:01:51 PM
"RE:This will make it , well, less complicated-uchiita" Apaologies, that should have been posted in response to El Cid.
 
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rbrooku    RE:Post-9/11 Assescessment Who we really should ahve invaded   10/1/2004 5:03:07 PM
"WHAT country makes more sense to invade than Iraq?" Under the points of your arguments, Somalia.
 
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rbrooku    RE:This will make it Simple - We invaded Iraq - Because We Could    10/1/2004 5:06:13 PM
"But I do have this little idea for your consideration: most of the people who really do analysis and policy discussion in a serious way are barely influenced by media at all - because they have nearly zero time to listen to it." Huh? So you don't peruse the Mandarin or Cantonese language media as a "Pacific Far Eat analyst"? I had assumed you to be at least a mediocre analyst, working with a limited set of Logic (Fomal and Dialectic), but will revise that downward if you say so.
 
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rbrooku    RE:This will make it , well, less complicated-uchiita   10/1/2004 5:08:28 PM
"Bush is popular because he obviously does not lie." Just misrepresents? Or, do you mean he is religiously or pathologicaly restricted from proper discimination?
 
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rbrooku    RE:This will make it , well, more humorous   10/1/2004 5:10:41 PM
"I am the perfect strait man" Yes, I certainly grant you that. Email me over on Yahoo sometime, I'd enjoy hearing more about you background. I probably could surprise you a bit with mine. Maybe you'll even learn to enjoy life when things are bleak.
 
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