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Subject: Friends For Sale
SYSOP    2/22/2019 5:52:22 AM
 
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Hari Sud       2/22/2019 3:16:10 PM
Try stay away from Iran. America has fought minor wars all over the world in last 30 years. Each they lost and then declared victory and left them in lurch. First finish the job in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria and then think of other places in Middle East.
 
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Lars       2/23/2019 6:14:27 AM
AFAIK, Iran never violated the 2015 agreement. Trump never claimed they did. Trump has claimed that they violated the *spirit* of the agreement, i.e. he was unhappy with what Iran was doing despite Iran being in compliance. So he walked out. Without talking to his allies in EU. The US is then using its power over the banking sector to force the EU to comply with US sanctions whether they agree with the new US position or not. This is just Trump being Trump. This is just bullying. The EU has the moral high ground here. It is not implausible that this is simply Trump doing business with the Saudis.
 
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trenchsol       2/26/2019 7:59:56 AM
The way I understand, 2015 Treaty was to be extended each year for period of another year. US simply did not extend it, which is their right. EU has no higher moral ground, they just have interests in it. Terms "EU" and "moral" are incompatible and mutually exclusive. Marine Le Pen, scores better and better in each election, hope she will eventually be able to take down the abomination called EU. The idea described above is not entirely new. During Soviet times, communist countries lacked hard currency. They traded with each other using "Clearing Dollar", a non existing currency. By the end of the year a country which had "Clearing Dollar" deficit compensated in in goods.
 
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Lars       2/27/2019 2:52:54 AM
Yes, the US exited the agreement according to the rules. That's not the point. The main point here is that Iran did not break the agreement, it was just that a newly elected reality TV star didn't like it. The ugly part, from the viewpoint of EU, is he left it without listening to them and that they they got threatened by sanctions if they didn't do as told. This is bad for the US. The first thing to understand is that there is little point going into an agreement with the Americans. The US is not a reliable partner when the next POTUS might very well not respect the agreement. Another thing we see happening is that the EU is building a framework for financial transactions that is independent of the US. When the US is seen to abuse its power over the banking sector, then it will no longer be trusted with that power. This is a long term weakening of US influence. Speaking of morals, I think it's clear that the present Administration is about as immoral and corrupt as it gets. It seems to have no problems in selling out its friends for some lucrative real state deals in Russia and/or Saudi.
 
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trenchsol       2/27/2019 4:51:23 AM
It is not just that President didn't like it. Iran conducts hostile policies towards countries (Israel, GCC) which are US friends and allies. Being party in a treaty with Iran is simply a logical and ethical contradiction. I don't see what other options President might have had.
 
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Lars       2/27/2019 6:29:31 AM
Of course Iran continued with everything it could outside of the agreement. Of course. It's just naive to think otherwise. So the present POTUS is forced to do something that the previous POTUS wasn't? They are contradicting each other. Which way will it be with the next POTUS? The world wonders. As these shenanigans with Iran, Syria, Russia and North Korea continue, US soft power is evaporating.
 
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trenchsol       2/27/2019 2:41:51 PM
Well, it is simple. Republican administration keep good relations with Israel and GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council). Democrat administration are trying to develop some sort of relationship with Iran, damaging ties with Israel and GCC. Why is that so, beats me. It never worked and Iranians are probably laughing at those efforts. But, Democrats keep trying.....
 
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Lars       2/28/2019 9:22:54 AM
If Israel and GCC doesn't like the agreement, then so what. They're not the gold standard for what the US should do. The present Republican administration sure doesn't mind damaging relations with EU. The present Republican administration is known by the friends it keeps. How about sucking up to Putin, praising Kim Jong-Un and ignoring what the Saudis are doing. And you complain that Obama was too nice to the Iranians? Remember, it's the EU sticking to the agreement that currently is the only thing in the way of the Iranians getting nukes. In my opinion, that's a pretty big deal. They just have to do it against the will of a narcissistic, corrupt, capricious and generally incompetent POTUS.
 
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