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Subject: Elections in Iran-yes a big one- impressive
Herc the Merc    12/13/2006 7:17:00 PM
news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061213/wl_nm/iran_elections_dc You got to say that barring Turkey there is only one country that has a respectable election process in the Middle East. I always wondered who setup the govt system in iran. Despite the traditional western newspaper calling it a sham it is fairly representative and miles ahead of others in the region.
 
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HoundOfHello       12/13/2006 9:19:20 PM
Doesn't the Grand Council of Ayatollahs (or something to that effect) have to give the green light to any candidate in the first place, and then have to accept the winner at the end? Sounds awfully non-representative to me...

Does Ahmadinejad represent the Iranian people (particularly the youth), or does he represent everything that is wrong with a fundamentalist theocracy?

-HoH

 
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Herald1234    General comment   12/13/2006 10:05:50 PM

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061213/wl_nm/iran_elections_dc

You got to say that barring Turkey there is only one country that has a respectable election process in the Middle East. I always wondered who setup the govt system in iran. Despite the traditional western newspaper calling it a sham it is fairly representative and miles ahead of others in the region.
"http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/tur-summary-eng "

"http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/iran/index.do "

General incompetence and sloppy research is no excuse in a topic.

http://www.nocturnalsoldier.org/Tealin/troll.jpg">

Herald

 
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Herc the Merc    HOH & Herald   12/14/2006 12:59:21 PM
Ahmedxxxx has support from the masses, not the elite usually--- he is a populist authotitarian type. Rich and educated people do not like that. Besides the Ayatollahs, there is also an expediency council. To say the Ayatollah is the supreme leader would be erroneous. & Herald all I said was Iran had a fairly sophisticated system of governance not liberal or humane, they have laws that we do not like but they have a system of government that works.
 
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FJV    nonsense   12/14/2006 1:22:10 PM
If elections were held the Iranian way in the US, then a counsil with most of the members appointed by Bush would decide who can and who cannot run for office.  This would mean you could only vote for Republican and Republican. Also the counsil that would supervise Bush would be appointed by the Republican party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Iran

According to current election laws, a body of 12 experts called the Guardian Council oversees and approves electoral candidates for most national elections in Iran. The majority of the members of this body are appointed by the Supreme Leader. According to the current law, this council vets also Assembly of Experts candidates, which in turn in supervise and elect the Supreme Leader, which ultimately creates a closed loop of power.

So you can vote anyone you like from of the list of fundamentalists we have approved for you. You can vote pro mullah or pro mullah. That's not really all that sophisticated.





 
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Herc the Merc    FJV   12/14/2006 1:31:28 PM
And compare that with Libya, Saudi, UAE & Iraq. Its acceptable, sur there is a screening process to ensure "qualifications" ie "homogenization" but that is effectively in all systems. Last election Iran had 10 candidates for President. Are u saying all 10 were the same or had some basic underlying viewss that were required. U think a radical Moslem stands a chance to be PM of UK--not much choice even in UK is there??
 
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Herald1234    General comment.   12/14/2006 1:34:37 PM

Ahmedxxxx has support from the masses, not the elite usually--- he is a populist authotitarian type. Rich and educated people do not like that. Besides the Ayatollahs, there is also an expediency council. To say the Ayatollah is the supreme leader would be erroneous. & Herald all I said was Iran had a fairly sophisticated system of governance not liberal or humane, they have laws that we do not like but they have a system of government that works.

Pelé encore par des faits.

http://www.cindybin.com/troll-club-2001.jpg">

All puns intended.

Heraldhttp://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/stock_illustration/images/cartoon_troll_001.gif">http://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/stock_illustration/images/cartoon_troll_001.gif">



 
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Herc the Merc    FJV   12/14/2006 1:37:25 PM
So you can vote anyone you like from of the list of fundamentalists we have approved for you. You can vote pro mullah or pro mullah. That's not really all that sophisticated.

-- And what grand choice do others have?? If we look at the US election Hillary, Gulliani, Obama, McCain,
last Iran elections it was Rafsanjani vs Ahmad + 8 others, now Rafsanjani is a reformer.
 
Point is Iran has a fairly representative system, though not Westernized I think if the rest of the Middle East were even this close -say Iraq--we would positively drool and go ga ga. Consider that the Ayatollahs and the Supreme council need not have had any elections and hire their own candidate. They are much more sophisticated than the usual propaganda we paint them with and much better than their last leader-the Shah.
 
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FJV       12/14/2006 2:24:10 PM
So you would be better democratically represented when during the next US election the president candidates are limited to these 8 choices:
- George Bush
- George Bush senior
- Jeb Bush
- Dick Cheney
- Donald Rumsfeld
- Paul Wolfowitz
- Condoleesa Rice
- John Bolton
You're making a great argument here!




 
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Herc the Merc    Well FJV Condi is the liberal here-Jeb is very good too unlike George jr-Bush Snr was ok too, 10 clones they are not   12/14/2006 2:28:26 PM

So you would be better democratically represented when during the next US election the president candidates are limited to these 8 choices:
- George Bush
- George Bush senior
- Jeb Bush
- Dick Cheney
- Donald Rumsfeld
- Paul Wolfowitz
- Condoleesa Rice
- John Bolton
You're making a great argument here!





But the Ayatollah needn't even field 10 candidates, they could select say just 1. But they didn't, thats my point-sure they are religious and essentially one party state, but so is Japan and China and US is a 2 party state--The issue with Iran is cultural norms, like female rights, sharia etc. I am just stating that for the Middle East thats not bad at all, and inquiring who wrote their constitution and organised this government. Its impressive for that part of the world.
 
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Herald1234    General comment.....democratic centralism in a kaftan.    12/14/2006 2:29:23 PM
 
 
One party states use that system to quash dissent..
So you can vote anyone you like from of the list of fundamentalists we have approved for you. You can vote pro mullah or pro mullah. That's not really all that sophisticated.

-- And what grand choice do others have?? If we look at the US election Hillary, Gulliani, Obama, McCain,

last Iran elections it was Rafsanjani vs Ahmad + 8 others, now Rafsanjani is a reformer.

 

Point is Iran has a fairly representative system, though not Westernized I think if the rest of the Middle East were even this close -say Iraq--we would positively drool and go ga ga. Consider that the Ayatollahs and the Supreme council need not have had any elections and hire their own candidate. They are much more sophisticated than the usual propaganda we paint them with and much better than their last leader-the Shah.


In Iran there is one defacto party that issues the candidate slate during an election and approves it. So it is written into the Iranian constitution.
 
L'incompétence continue à fonctionner d'une manière insensée.
 
Herald
 
 
 
 


 
 
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