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Subject: Would Nazism Have Long Survived A German Victory?
CJH    10/7/2005 3:01:39 PM
I remember reading Solzhenitsen's "Gulag Archipelago" (no. 1) where he wrote about how the USSR's being a WWII victor was a misfortune, mainly in that no lessons were learned and no reform was therefore possible. Only in the defeated countries could there be introspection and repentence and reform and renewal. That caused me to wonder if German Nazism would not have gradually become ossified as a result of a German victory which would have been interpreted as a vindication of the Fuhrer and his system. But with the progressive attainment of its goals, Nazism's raison d'etre would progressively subside and therefore its focus. At the same time, returning war vets would be bringing back tales of horror and nightmares from the occupied lands along with perhaps some antipathy towards the Nazi Party. It might be an interesting question how German Nazism would have fared following a German victory over Russia with Germany in control of most of Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals. My opinion is that Nazism could not have survived a generation or so.
 
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Carl S    RE:Would Nazism Have Long Survived A German Victory?   10/7/2005 8:05:00 PM
Economicly the Nazi state was being run as a kleptocracy. The National Socialism was for the the 'German' masses. Everyone else under Nazi rule was subject to extorsion if they were lucky, or out right robbery/murder if not. Contrary to the old myth the nazi policys did not revive the German economy. They created a illusion of prosperity with a combination of excessive borrowing from the bank & business community, confistacatory taxes and laws aimed at the Jews & miscl other groups. The Anchulss with Austria allowed the looting to the Austrian gov accounts and Austrian Jewish businesses, the same occured in Cezckoslavakia. The looting of Poland, France, the low countries, the USSR, ect.. is well documented. With some sort of victory over the USSR the economic conditions of the Reich would have appeared good. The Germans would have benefitted from the low cost resources flowing in, for a short while. The problem is the rest of Europe would have been sinking into even worse misery, and had progressively less to offer the Nazis. At some point the pyramid scheme would have neared collapse. At this point the Nazis would have had to adopt a more rational economic strategy. Or the German master race would begain to fight internally over a pile of symbolic wealth of declining real value.
 
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Thomas    Carl S   10/31/2005 9:38:11 AM
Very well put! WW2 was a result of a failed administration, not the cause of its fall.
 
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Carl S    RE:Carl S   10/31/2005 10:13:11 PM
I would not quite ascribe it exclusively to failed economic policies. The Nazis failed diplomaticly and politically as well. Their key failure was to sidline the Western Democracys so Poland and the USSR could be conquored. Delaying the entry of the US into the European war was a second critical failure. Politically the Nazis failed to recruit the masses of Eurpe into their scheme. Many had the option of joining the facist parties and working for the Aryan race, and the economic and poitical benefits of doing so were there. Instead the broad mass of potiential supporters choose to sullenly stand aside. Note just how few Europeans voluntered to join the "crusade against Bolshivism" between 1941 and 1943.
 
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Thomas    RE:Carl S   11/2/2005 7:17:48 AM
My point of view of the diplomatic side of it is: With impending bankrupcy Hitlers diplomatic hand was forced!
 
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