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Subject:
Best Allied General of WW II
buzzard
7/13/2007 11:24:59 AM
Now in my opinion, the best generals of WW II are German. They did some amazing things which what they had at their disposal. However I am curious as to whom people think were the best allied generals. Mind you I am specifically naming generals since allowing admirals in would broaden things more than I like. So who's your pick? While I am a fan of Patton, I doubt he merits this title. I imagine a good case could be made for General Slim in Burma. This would be one example where the allies didn't have a massive material advantage. buzzard
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CJH
7/14/2007 1:16:53 AM
Now in my opinion, the best generals of WW II are German. They did some amazing things which what they had at their disposal.
However I am curious as to whom people think were the best allied generals. Mind you I am specifically naming generals since allowing admirals in would broaden things more than I like. So who's your pick?
While I am a fan of Patton, I doubt he merits this title. I imagine a good case could be made for General Slim in Burma. This would be one example where the allies didn't have a massive material advantage.
buzzard
I would have said Gen. Slim.
But I would credit Patton much. Too often, generals lack aggressiveness even though aggressiveness goes with what they do. General Montgomery would be an example of this lack of aggressiveness. Then there was the general in charge of the forces which had landed at Anzio. He chose to dig in and wait rather than to attack.
What is the saying quoted by Paul Carrell - fortune favors the bold?
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CJH
7/14/2007 1:19:56 AM
Then there was DeGaul. Was not his book on warfare used by the Germans?
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Herald1234
7/14/2007 9:35:59 PM
Now in my opinion, the best generals of WW II are German. They did some amazing things which what they had at their disposal.
However I am curious as to whom people think were the best allied generals. Mind you I am specifically naming generals since allowing admirals in would broaden things more than I like. So who's your pick?
While I am a fan of Patton, I doubt he merits this title. I imagine a good case could be made for General Slim in Burma. This would be one example where the allies didn't have a massive material advantage.
buzzard
Zhukov, Rostossevskiiy, Konev, a few others from the eastern front. Richard O'Connor for the British, Vandergrift and Holland Smith from the US Marines. Eichelberger, Collins, Patch, Ridgeway for the US Army. If there were Air Force generals, nobody could touch Spaatz, Doolittle, Kearney , or the mad bomber, himself , Curtis LeMay. Dowding for the RAF and Chennault for the USAAF also deserve mention.
Too bad admirals are excluded, The USN has a galaxy of them; Spruance, the best commander of WW II, PERIOD, Clifton Sprague the second best admiral of WW II, PERIOD. Nimitz, Turner, Barbey, Lee, Oldendorf, Kincaid, Fitch, Forest and Freddy Sherman , Mitscher, McCain, and the often ignored Charles McMorris. Many of them were better than the usual run of the mill Western admiral. The British had Frazier, Tovey, Cunningham, and Vian, all vastly overrated, but their best naval commander, a true genius, Sir Max Horton, never received the honors he truly deserved.
Neither did the Canadian, Leonard W. Murray.
Picking among the Australians is tough, Vessey, Herring, Mooreshead. I know something about these men, but I don't know enough to have a qualified opinion. Potts?, here was a Australian general I believe unfairly sacked for his successful.actions along the Kokoda trail.
You want the worst Allied generals of the Second World War.
Famous ones? Bernard Law Montgomery.
Neville Ritchie.
Frederick Fredendall
Douglas MacArthur, when he listened to that son of a bitch, Sutherland
Grigory Kulik of the Soviet Union and Leslie McNair of the US were particularly awful though.
Herald
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Clackers
11/12/2007 5:23:41 AM
For underperforming Allied generals you might want to add Mark Clark, Herald !
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CJH
8/17/2008 1:00:20 PM
I heard the name Spaatz mentioned as among the best generals.
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forvalour
8/18/2008 7:33:29 AM
depends what you want, to stop allies killing each other ike, for armoured manouvere warfare patton, for attrition monty. but overall i agree with slim, little material, few men, apaalling conditions, fanatical enemy and little public support.
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pro-military
2/13/2010 2:22:07 PM
On the Western and Southern Fronts, Patton has to be one the best. Twice his moves busted up entire German armies. In Sicily, he had to be restrained by higher ups. If the hadn't restrained him, he would have driven all the way to Messina, taken the city, and trapped all the Germans on the Island. Instead, the allies ended up fighting those same Germans in Italy. In France, he would have been the leader of the American forces on the ground, if he hadn't been to much of bulldog. When he got to France with his 3rd army, His bold moves again had provided him a chance to trap the whole German army in the region and again he was restrained.
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LB
Patton Overrated
2/13/2010 11:35:27 PM
Patton is entirely overrated. Sicily was not the best operation on multiple levels but after Alexander gave Monty the road Second Corp was using then the Americans were mostly out it and going around the entire island to get to Messina was the only option there was which was done almost entirely against very light resistance until they closed in on Messina in which Patton certainly did not distinguish himself with his battalion landing operations. In any case there was zero chance of cutting off the Germans- zero. The failure of the allies to interfere with the axis withdrawal from Sicily in any way is legion. His bold move in France was the result Bradley's planning against light opposition. Indeed one might look at Patton's running of Second Corp in Tunisia or much of his campaign in Western France for an instructive look into some mediocre leadership.
Patton had flashes of good operations and a good strategic mind, he was the only allied commander advocating attacking the base of the German penetration at the Battle of the Bulge, but he was a better than average army commander compared to a lot of really awful Western Allied army commanders.
The best Allied generals at high level were mostly Soviet. Leaving aside division commanders there are points in time where particular Allied generals stand out. Personally, I'd point out O'Connor in Egypt and Libya, Juin during the 4th Battle of Monte Cassino (he was really outstanding and head and shoulders above everyone else in Italy), and MacArthur during New Guinea which is an almost entirely forgotten campaign of dozens of amphibious operations conducted by Uncle Dan the Amphibious Man. In any case Zhukov beat up the Japanese in 1939 at Nomonhan, ran the counter attack at Moscow and later Stalingrad against the Germans and has to be the leading contender for best Allied General. I have a soft spot for Slim but he's not anywhere near the league of top commanders.
On the Western and Southern Fronts, Patton has to be one the best. Twice his moves busted up entire German armies. In Sicily, he had to be restrained by higher ups. If the hadn't restrained him, he would have driven all the way to Messina, taken the city, and trapped all the Germans on the Island. Instead, the allies ended up fighting those same Germans in Italy. In France, he would have been the leader of the American forces on the ground, if he hadn't been to much of bulldog. When he got to France with his 3rd army, His bold moves again had provided him a chance to trap the whole German army in the region and again he was restrained.
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cwDeici
2/14/2010 5:49:29 AM
Zhukov... he had difficult circumstances on more levels than most other allied generals but could still contend for best performance on results.
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patroclus
Patton?
2/14/2010 7:10:25 AM
Can you defend that example?
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