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Subject: Deep Strike Brigades
11b10    6/20/2003 8:44:53 AM
I have come across this term a couple of times in papers discussing the transformation of the Army,unfortunately the authors saw no reason to define the term.They seem to use it as a term to describe future formations but I have been unable to find a definition that, applied to their usage made sense.
 
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Deep Strike Brigades   6/20/2003 12:00:40 PM
I'll take a shoot. Since Brigades is in reference to ground units, mostly, and Breaking the Phalanx talked about "Deep Battle Groups", I think this. Rocket Artillery, espeically since they have "extended range" rockets can now reach targets way beyond the range of traditional artillery. Especially with the new munitions, there is quite alot of talk about forming units of these to replace some of the "traditional" Corp Artillery. The ground units would now have a "deep strike" ability without using air assets to perform that mission. You would also need LRRP type infantry units to act as the FO's, but the theory worked well in Vietnam with Marine Force Recon, Army LRRPs. etc using air assets and artillery, so why not extend the area even further? Especially if you think in terms of destroying SCUDs.
 
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Deep Strike Brigades ... forgot something.   6/20/2003 12:02:56 PM
UAVs could perform the function of those recon infantry. As both could stay in the area to correct the fire or continue it until the target was destroyed.
 
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11b10    RE:Deep Strike Brigades ... forgot something.   6/20/2003 1:27:40 PM
Sounds like Your right, they did talk about designating the units at Ft. Lewis as such.I assume they are talking about Strykers.I also assume the Strykers, if used, would count on Deep Strike capabilty to survive.Sounds a little iffy to me.
 
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Deep Strike Brigades ... Strykers   6/20/2003 4:52:16 PM
As was discussed somewhere else around here, the doctrine used to be to take the "strategically" mobile forces, drop them in place, and while they hold that position, the heavy units arrive to conduct the offensive. I don't understand how they want to use Stryker. Assume they have airlift ability, I can do the same as above. I think the difference, is that if you are facing "light infantry", they want Stryker to conduct "shock and awe", like the Marines did in Iraq. Question would be, what would Stryker do if its faced with heavy armor? Here is the part I don't think they are being honest about. I believe the DoD thinks that with air dominance, the Strykyer units can call on PGM's to destroy the enemy armor. Hence, no need for heavy units. If thats correct, then Strykers are a replacement for heavy units. Especailly when you look at the Future Combat System, which is some sort of 40ton tank. Time will tell. But I agree with you. Either we are getting half truths, or they really believe that air dominance and strike missiles from the air and sea have obsoleted heavy armor. Gets back to the "Jedi Knight" belief.
 
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11b10    RE:Deep Strike Brigades ... Strykers   6/20/2003 8:46:10 PM
"As was dicussed somewhere else" Shaka. Yes I know Shaka I lurk and try to understand what the intellegencia on this board are dicussing, but I have been out of the force quite awhile.Talk about future shock.I can barely understand what the young infantrymen are talking about when they talk shop and thats when they don't use acronyms.I also could not believe those ruck loads they are carrying surely they aren't expected to carry those loads in the jungle when they are dismounted.rambling, later.
 
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macawman    RE:Deep Strike Aviation Brigades    8/14/2003 11:30:42 PM
The Aviation Bde of an Army division had or has a AH-64 "Deep Strike" mission as doctrine. Army Aviation may have rethought this concept after the "Charge of the AH-64s at Karbala" in GW II. But I have seen nothing offical that says that the Army has dropped "Deep Strike" operations for AH-64s. Note: The Air Force has the same mission but they call it "Deep Interdiction".
 
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MikeG    RE:Deep Strike Aviation Brigades    1/1/2004 9:18:02 AM
All the talk of light units is fine if the plan is to fight Iraqi remnant type forces.. or "irregulars"... all the time. What happens if we have to lock horns with the PRC or North Kor. What happens if Taiwan decides to "think out of the box". The problem is that forces, like healthcare... costs more and more and there are no ways to control those costs nor will to do so. To split the difference we reduce the number of heavy forces and move towards light forces because they are cheaper.. not because they're more lethal. The big vendors WILL get paid... the political process will see to that. We fought WWII on two major fronts with huge forces, we fought VN and Korea with large numbers of troops and on the home front you hardly noticed. We are in two fronts today .. Afgan and Iraq ... very "light" conflicts...with the most lethal troops ever seen... and we're hemoraging. The reserves and NG are hanging in there, but they were supposed to be reinforcements of D+360 or somthing, not frontliners. When this is over, the reup rate will be telling. We're moving troops from Korea and Japan to shore up these wounds. If North Kor decided to be "creative", we'd have to have a national callup because we don't have any more major formations left... two "minor" conflicts have drained us that much. We simply are pricing ourselves out of our own defense. A $1b+ tank is a LOT of money ... even if it has a DVD burner installed... We can't control the costs and we're therefore compromising.
 
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Heorot    RE:Deep Strike Aviation Brigades    1/2/2004 5:16:10 AM
Mike, do you think the policy of buying the very best kit at exorbitant prices in order to save a few lives is the best policy for US forces.
 
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MikeG    RE:Deep Strike Aviation Brigades    1/5/2004 6:32:57 PM
I think that we can buy our way into bankuptcy.. this stuff isn't free. NO... I'm not even in that $700 hammer thing, but there are no price controls. What good does it do to be able to afford a 30 day supply of stuff. I can't tell you what an M1A2 is "worth", but I do know $1b+ is too much. Here's my point. Can I get the exact same thing for ... $.5b... $.01b... The vendors will say no because they owe their allegance to the stockholders and war is a business like any other.. at least to some of them. Is a 155 HE shell worth $20k.. will it have the same effective radius if it costs $500. The arguement goes that BECAUSE it costs $20k (or whatever) it is automatically better, not because the components are actually better. Equip wears out and tech improves, but does the improvement automatically mean that the ordance MUST... MUST cost more.. The F/A 18 does not have the range of the A6... but because of that we rationalize that it's better eventhough some of the gadgets could be fitted to the A6. How much did we pay for the B1 even after they kept flying into the ground. The costing thing is rarely done because absent an economic crash, there's too much money in it. The econmic savings models I've seen about "oh... it cost more, but here's what we really saved"... are a farce.
 
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