Turkey vs. Greece who better?

Military History \| How To Make War \| Wars Around the World	Rules of Use	How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
Return to Topic Page

Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes 1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM

Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?

Quote Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title Newest to Oldest

Pages: PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 NEXT

fatolios 12/26/2009 10:26:35 AM

This is the 21st century.

Warfare is conducted with new methods and philosophies.

In order to achieve tactical advantages and superiority in the modern battle field, armies must be able to combine manpower, equipment and knowhow from all branches of the military..ex: Use of tanks and armored vehicles along with support from attack helicopters, something that has been proven many times in Iraq by the U.S. army.

For the past 10 years, Greece has been modernizing its army, converting a large % from the traditional conscript army to a professional one. Serving is still mandatory, however efforts are ongoing for further reductions on conscripts.

The Greek Airforce is consistently updating its' aircraft with F16 Block 52+ Advanced, Block 52+, F16 Block 50+.

The Turkish Airforce is still highly based on F16 Block 30's, 40's, and recently updating to some Block 50+.

Block 52's offer wider and longer radar coverage, thus a tecnical advantage in most cases.

Greek pilots scramble daily to intercept Turkish incursions in Greek Airspace, and along with joint training in the U.S. with the USAF and USNG, have gained invaluabl

Quote Reply

fatolios 12/26/2009 12:24:53 PM

cont....

invaluable experience. Turkey is in the process of ordering 100 F35's, which would significantly boost its' Airforce, and would almost certainly be followed by a Greek response for a similar but smaller purchase.

When comparing tanks, Greece has achieved a tangible advantage.

With the purchase of 170 Leopard 2 HEL, it posseses the world most formidable battle tank, only comparable to the U.S.

M1 Abraams battle tank. It also has a large number of Leopard 2A4's and has managed to homogenize its entire tank armament, which gives it another logistical advantage when interchanging spare parts and equipment on the battle field and off. It is impressive to see the difference between the Leopard HEL to any Turkish Tank, something worth researching... Another interesting subject was the problem of low availability of Turkish battle tanks, due to damages and low maintainance, and how this affected the Turkish incursion against Kurdish Rebel military bases into Northern Iraq a few years back.

Along with the above advantage when compared with Turkish tanks, Greece has also invested in attack helicopters, Appache and Appache Long Bows which Turkey hasn't. Again joint operations and tactics of battle tanks and attack helicopters have been proven invaluable by U.S. forces in Iraq and is a recipe for success in the modern battlefield.

Now the Greek Navy has a long history of competancy, including Nato exercises and even shown recently in the EU mission for the protection of commercial ships against piracy in the South Coast of Somalia.

It has been historicaly successful against the Ottoman Empire, including WWI, when Greek naval ships would terrorize the Turkish fleet which would fear coming out of the Bosporus straits and into the Aegean.

The latest additions to the Greek submarine fleet, are 3 type 214 attack subs(awaiting for a 4th one to be released), while Turkey is still ongoing negotiations, and expectations for the 1st type 214 to be ready is at about 2015.

So, shen talking about the 21st century battlefield, and to say that..."We have American weapons, they do too but less, and we outnumber them 7-1" is at least, not very educated and very unrealistic.

Clearly, it is a test of Quality VS. Quantity, but WHAT IS THE POINT??

Comparing planes to planes, ships to ships, tanks to tanks...it is all ridiculous.

All these funds could be allocated to subjects like Education, technology, medical research..

If as a Greek, I have a reason to be angry at Turks, it is because their ridiculous, backwards Islamic foundamentalist ideals and Nationalism, continue to force me to pay a large % of my taxes so I could have the latest version of an F16 (later the F35), the newest Leopard Tank, and submarines.

100's of SCALP missiles and lazer guided bombs to hit who?? A Turkish mother and her kids? No thanks!!

The newest F16 to shoot down a Turkish pilot, when these pilots have orders to come into Greek airspace?

Why the heck did the Commander of the Turkish Navy come for an official visit to Greece, was very honorably greeted by his counterpart, was taken to, and he inspected Navy installations?

I really don't get why people with low intelligence get on these sites and express ridiculous backwards nationalistic crap...

I read in another message that we "lived" together for 600 years. In reality, and if someone reads a little history, we did not live together by choice, The Ottomans conquered the area and subdued its' people from 1453 until the Greek Independence of 1821, about 400 years or so...

I don't want war with ANYONE...and honestly I don't see one in the near future...

I don't believe that Greeks and Turks have many things in common, just inevitable influences from 400 years of being forced to live together under Sultans, Pashas, caliphs, etc...

So, to wrap it up...

If still in 2010, Turkey faces basic issues like...

- Does Turkey belong to the West or the Middle East?

- How could the Turkish military still greatly influence governments and foreign relations with neighboors in the 21st century? (An attribute of 3rd World nations)

- Why would PM Erdogan have occasional "beef" with Turkish generals?

- Why in the 21st Century, there are still political parties outlawed in Turkey?

- Lastly, as a Greek I would ask.

Quote Reply

gr14120047 1/5/2010 3:55:44 AM

we will never have war among the 2 nations greece-turkey. what we have to do is to help turkey to become more civilized nation to join europe and to study our european values and then they realized what means to be europen .

Quote Reply

fatolios 1/9/2010 6:08:39 PM

All out war does not look like a real possibility.

However ?Never? seems to be quite a forgotten word in our days.

A ?hot? episode has the most probabilities of occurring.

The fact is that there are open legal disputes between the 2 countries?Cyprus Issue, Aegean continental sea shelf.

Also, the Turks have been trying in the past 14 or so years to raise an issue of ?grey? zones in the Aegean, the seriousness of that claim also seems quite ?grey?, so there are not many chances of Turkey going anywhere with this, regardless, they have been trying to take advantage by sea and air?.Turkish incursions into Greek Airspace (also recorded on Nato Radars), Turkish naval incursions into Greek waters (one of the best examples is the breeching of the ?Bodrum? F-501 Corvette on the reefs of Castelorizo island this past August, a few days after, Greek seals salvaged the ship?s sonar and other parts that broke off during the collision).

Clearly, Greece cannot afford to pretend that its neighbor is Sweden seeking only a fun summer in the Aegean. If that was the case, our borders would be open, and the only boats coming towards the Greek islands would be sailboats with happy tourists.

Also in Turkey there are human rights concerns, outlawing of political parties, military intervention in Turkish politics, the Kurdish issue, the huge issue of the acceptance of the Armenian genocide, and the list of problems goes on and on. A new development is the execution of Greek/Greek-Cypriot war prisoners by Turkish forces during the invasion of Cyprus. All these issues are raised in European political forums, and expressed when the European council comes to the point of determining how to proceed with Turkey?s application status.

The French and Germans are leading the way for a more ?favorable? relationship rather than full membership, fearing (they are probably right) of HUGE Turkish migrations in their countries.

To try to make Turkey more European seems like a long-shot, but will probably be more beneficial for neighbors like Greece. However it looks like the ?most European? that many countries are willing to make Turkey, is enough to exploit its? 70+ million inhabitants to more products and cheap factory labor.

Quote Reply

cwDeici 1/10/2010 11:01:57 AM

FIRST I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM A GREEK. I HAVE TO SAY THAT I DONT REALLY KNOW WHO WILL WIN SUCH A WAR. AT LEAST I AM NOT SURE. I HOPE THAT IT WILL BE GREECE. LET ME MENTION SOMETHING TO YOU FRIEND. DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR WE WERE THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT HELP GERMANS AND ITALIANS FOR SO MUCH WITH JUST OUR 10 MILLIONS. WE HELD THEM SO MUCH THAT THEY HAD TO POSTPONE THEIR ATTACK ON RUSSIA THAT LED THEM -EXCEPT FROM THE INTERFIERENCE OF U.S.A. MAYBE- TO LOSING THE WAR! ALSO WHEN WE WERE UNDER YOUR CONQUER WE FIGHTED YOU OFF OUR LANDS WITH ABOUT 1/100 OF YOUR ARMY CAUSE YOU HAD THE EGYPTIANS ALSO. NOW THESE MIGHT SEEM A LITTLE FAR AWAY FOR YOU NOW BUT I HAVE TO REMIND YOU THAT EVERY TIME WE DECIDE TO SEND AN F-15 TO SEND AWAY YOURS (CAUSE WE DONT DO THAT MANY TIMES YOU DO) WE ARE SUCCESFUL AND YOURS FLY BACK TO THEIR CAMP. BUT BESIDES THAT CAUSE WE CANT KNOW IF EVERY COUNTRY SENDS THE BEST PILOTS I REMIND YOU ALSO THAT IN A WAR THAT WILL TAKE ABOUT 3 YEARS LETS SAY YOUR ECONOMY WILL SUFFER MORE THAN OURS CAUSE WE JUST LIBE BETTER THAN YOU (NOT THAT WE HAVE A GOOD LIFE HERE I AM NOT SAYING THAT).SO IN CONCLUSION I HAVE TO SAY THAT THIS WAR WILL BE HELD AND I THINK THAT IT WILL BE WORLD WAR 3 OR 4 IT DEPENDS! I THINK THAT IF IT TAKES MANY UEARS THEN GREECE WILL WIN BUT IF IT IS A SHORT WAR THEN YOU WILL WIN AND WE WILL FIGHT LIKE WE DID WITH THE GERMANS IN THE MOUNTAINS. ONE THINK THAT YOU CANT CERTAINLY DO IS BREAK A GREEKS SPIRIT. CAUSE IN CASES OF WAR WE FIGHT FOR OUR LAND UNTIL THERE IS NOONE LEFT AND I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

THANKS FOR READING THIS PAL.

Great post and reasonable grammar. I agree with you there will probably be a war the next time international security breaks down. Pity the united Greece concept broke down c0z of the pro-German Kings and their cabinets of WWI and WWII who once they got on the right side were still incompetent and continued to damage the effort.

And please for the sake of all that is good, learn not to use Caps Lock.

Quote Reply

cwDeici 1/10/2010 11:05:59 AM

I have to disagree about who would win in a long-term war though. I think in the short-term it'd be disputed, with the Turks winning in the long term and the Greeks winning in the medium term. Though of course if the Turks continue to savage themselves with Islam you're right because Greece will have more allies.

Hmmmm so maybe you're right anyway. But in an isolated fight Greece has to rely on the middle to short-term. As much as I hope you'd win there simply isn't enough economy and population in comparison. Hopefuklly the increading radicalism of Turkey will destroy their economy. Of course I don't think you'll get conquered... you're too tough for that.

Greece (as a nation though) needs to become less arrogant in the anti-war leftist nationalist exceptionalist sense and start kissing up to the so-called Imperialist Powers of the West

Quote Reply

makelovenotwar 3/1/2010 1:53:25 PM

Quote Reply

makelovenotwar 3/1/2010 1:54:19 PM

Quote Reply

sava 3/23/2010 11:19:08 AM

Greece & Turkey is the Wall for the North-West Countries and USA. If there is a "war" (not only a small incident) between them then this wall will collapsed. Greece is not going to attack Turkey. The only scenario is only if Turkey make an attack movement and Greece answear to this attack. So Turkey must defend her own attack which is very painful for any army.

Quote Reply

sava 3/23/2010 5:06:24 PM

I want also to add that both countries will try to gain something from this event. Turkey has more advantage to gain some areas but also Greece is going to gain some main points but she will need more power than Turkey because of the big areas of Turkey. If Greece managed to gain these areas she will be the winner of this war. But is more difficult to defend them. So its not only what kind of weapon both countries have. The more serious problem is the strategy and the amount of time.

Quote Reply

PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 NEXT