Nope, no hope. Just put up a fierce fight in the "Mexatas line of defence" in Macedonia-Thrace front. Note that Greece fought against Italians, Germans and Bulgarians simultaneously in two fronts.

The battle of Crete also have been pretty fierce. Then you have the massive Greek resistance movement and the Greek airforce and army fighting on allies side in N. Africa.

 

Greece has just contributed the most it could in a dark period for Europe and the world. Greece also lost about 10% of its population during WW2...

 

I guess what  "Godofgamblers"  just trying to say is that Greeks will fight back in a conflict, very hard, there will be no "walkthrough" for noone.

 

Personally i find it quite ridiculus to speculate on the outcome of a greco-turkish conflict based just on patriotic sentiment or history. The military arsenals of the two countries and the strategic situation are known and pretty much balanced overally.

 

In my opinion the outcome of such a conflict will be judged ONLY in the battlefield and not in forums. In a forum one can only speculate based on data, and its just funny to conclude with certainty in such an issue.

 

Noone can really know how both militaries will behave in a real operational situation or how equipment will deliver. Have in mind that "modern" military equipment has seen action only in wars like Iraq, Afghanistan, Checnya, Georgia, etc.

So far we have only seen advanced military machines putting down irregulars and poorly trained forces armed with obsolete weapon systems.

 

I mean can anyone say with certainty if Exocet is better than Harpoon (in a REAL war)?

What about F-16 vs Mirage 2000?

Russian made A/A weapons like Tor-M1 and S-300 PMU against F-16?

Harpies against shorads?

How about a massive clash of airforces in BVR and WVR?

etc...

 

One has to see how the various weapon systems and tactics will perform in a real situation and not in a brochure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True but consider real strategic situation

Greece has air superiority in a battle of attrition as I demonstrated

Theatre is mainly a naval theater except from the narrow montaneous land stripe which separate Greece from Turkey.

If Greece retains 100 aircraft vs zero after a total air battle of attrition, Greece win.Period.

Air superiority of Greece is garanteed by Europe and USA (who show themselves more neutrals).

Turkey can not expect to win a war since its supplies of weapon is very low and US dependant

Greece has a much bigger stock allowing it to wage a several week war before exhausting its ammunitions.Even with a US embargo.

The reality is that Greece is allowed to do a limited agression on Turkey while Turkey can not.

 

 

OK i have read all the comments below,Turkey is one of the rare nat&&05;on that has never been ruled by other nat&&05;on, nobody can underestimaste that fact.Truely when it comes to quest&&05;on that WHO W&&04;NS? TURKEY or GREECE?,the answer will be with no DOUBT  that TURKEY W&&04;NS, why? cz Turkey has a lot of man power along with power of creed,faitfullness mean&&05;ng TURKS HAS something that is not very esay to understand,TURKEY has been in war with GREEKS in history and always successfull , also they have much more advantage with experience in combat war ,what could 11.7 million nat&&05;on could do aga&&05;nst 72.6 mil Turks? nothing......Turkey has great army and Airforce ,,,i belive this subject of who w&&05;ns shouldnt even be top&&05;c,therefore do not let people who enjoys seen Turks and Greeks are even argu&&05;ng on here,we have to hope that two nat&&05;ons should be always close to eachother and live happly ,we have same food almost same music and almost same culture,i belive the only diffrence between Turkey and Greece is our religions,.but aga&&05;n there will always be extrimist, racist,brain washed people around,it is time for not only Turkey and Greece but for the WORLD to live in peace and love as ATAURK said,; ;peace at home peace in the world:,,

 

ORKUN BAYDAR

Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry
turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry
both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?

OK i have read all the comments below,Turkey is one of the rare nation that has never been ruled by other nation, nobody can underestimaste that fact.Truely when it comes to question that WHO WiNS? TURKEY or GREECE?,the answer will be with no DOUBT  that TURKEY WiNS, why? cz Turkey has a lot of man power along with power of creed,faitfullness meaning TURKS HAS something that is not very esay to understand,TURKEY has been in war with GREEKS in history and always successfull , also they have much more advantage with experience in combat war ,what could 11.7 million nation could do against 72.6 mil Turks? nothing......Turkey has great army and Airforce ,,,i belive this subject of who wins shouldnt even be topic,therefore do not let people who enjoys seen Turks and Greeks are even arguing on here,we have to hope that two nations should be always close to eachother and live happly ,we have same food almost same music and almost same culture,i belive the only diffrence between Turkey and Greece is our religions,.but again there will always be extrimist, racist,brain washed people around,it is time for not only Turkey and Greece but for the WORLD to live in peace and love as ATAURK said,; ;peace at home peace in the world:,,

 

ORKUN BAYDAR

 

OPINION:

Peace and trade, as you note and as Attaturk said;  is always better than the bandit thinking that promotes hate and divides peoples.. 

FACT:

As for French Strategy, his opinion is TECHNICALLY worthless.

 

Herald

 

Yes, that's what i meant. But the party on the defensive side will have a definite advantage and if the war is drawn out, as high tech weapons are expended through attrition, the side with larger manpower reserves would have the advantage for sure.

Gog

Cyprus invasion by Turkey happened in 1974 when Greece was under a weapon embargo due to Colonel regime and so Greec armed force were inferior at this time

See history of Mirage F1

by Nicholas Tselepidis)
In June 1967 many things changed in the way air wars were conducted worldwide. One of these changes was that a non-US fighter achieving a great combat record that made it famous all over the world: the Dassault Mirage III. As Staff Officers in different parts of the globe started to study the Six Day War, a few kilometres on the northwest of the battlefield, another crisis was starting to develop. On September 9, 1967 the then Turkish Prime Minister Suleiman Demirel stated "Any action against the peace and safety of our community in Cyprus will find Turkey opposed". Obviously the Turkish Generals thought the Greek Colonels and their Junta in the Athens were 'easy prey'. Rauf Denktash is being arrested by a 1st Higher Command patrol after coming ashore at night in a Turkish SF operation North of Famagusta, on Cyprus, on the night of the 31st of October and the tension between Greece and Turkey rapidly rose. St. Michael's day, November 8 1967, is the traditional open day for all Greek Air Force (Polemiki Aeroporia - shortened: "(E)PA") bases. Fighter aircraft are dispersed in all bases and the families and aviation enthusiasts visit them. That day at 10:30h for the FIRST time after the Lausanne Treaty of 1923, Turkish fighters in battle formations flew east over the Greek National Airspace from Samothrace to Rhodes! The then 28ATAF CO, Air Vice Marshall I. Anagnostopoulos after notifying the PA leadership and failing to reach 6ATAF CO Lt. Gen. Tipton, finally broke through the Airsouth CO in Naples and gave him 12 hours to recall the Turkish fighters. After that limit PA interceptors would be sent with orders to implement ROEs as per international law.

Since that time THK fighters did not attempt such a massive move - that is, until July 1974. There were sporadic violations, especially from THK fighters that returned to Turkey from Squadron Exchanges with Greek Squadrons during 1973 and early 1974 however, without any political consequences. This mini crisis showed to PA the vulnerability of its spare parts supply: any time the US wanted to cut the readiness factor of PA QRA aircraft, it would find excuses like "port worker strikes" to cause delays of - for example - tyres and JATO rockets for PA F-84's. This is exactly what happened in November 1967 and prompted 28th ATAF Chief of Operations, then Brigadier Edmund Laitmer, to request from the then dictator-Prime Minister - and Minister of Defence - G. Papadopoulos to buy a non-US fighter aircraft for the PA to be able to maintain a level of readiness without having to think about political implications. The Mirage III was suggested at that meeting.

In the summer of 1968, the PA sent 4 officers (Brigadier Laitmer, and Lt. Cols - as per NATO terminology - I. Hantziris (F-5A and F-86D pilot), and E. Tsamousopoulos (F-84 and F-104G pilot) plus one mechanics) to evaluate the MirageIIIB. From July 2 until July 4, the Dassault invited them from Merignac to Istres were they flew the brand new Mirage IIIRD (s/n 304). For pilots having flown and taught according to the USAF manuals and procedures, this was a surprise, nevertheless, already during the second flight with the one-seater a combat profile was flown!

A second PA detachment went to France in 1971 in order to evaluate this time the brand-new Mirage F.1. The 335 CO E. Kampiotis (an F-84/86/104G pilot and trained at Nellis AFB, in the USA, as an F-4C Instructor in 1966-67) and later PA chief of staff and Undersecretary of Defence, N. Kouris both flew the Mirage F.1-03 after only one day of ground school, with emphasis on the emergency procedures. The "-1 manual" was a mixture of handwritten notes in French and English, written by Dassault's test pilots and the cockpit panel was of course written in French.

After the Nixon administration had lifted the arms embargo, in 1972, the Greek administration opted for the F-4E instead, because it was two-seater and had better range than the F.1. Even after Dassault offered a 20% participation and a production line in Greece in order to secure the deal the PA chose to go American by ordering F-4E's A-7H's and C-130's instead. This was a major step for PA and meant that money should be spent not only in purchasing a/c but also in training personnel, building infrastructure (runways, taxiways, hangars, depots etc.) and keeping the current mission under NATO and National operational requirements. Negotiations restarted in early 1974, but by then the co-production deal was gone and the aircraft had to be paid in cash with no loans

Kane

Atilgan and zipkin are shorad systems based on US Stinger missiles and components

What matters are the missiles and components.

Turkey has no serious defense industry for now.
Turkey is maintained at at level just below Greece by western nations which controls Turkish imports.

Enough to deter Greece and more important, to be a barrier vs Russia or Iran but nothing more.

 

 

See RAAF assessment.

 

Source.

 

"The R 530 was developed for use against high altitude bomber targets flying in a predictable manner. One Australian Mirage pilot once said that the "R 530 was a good missile on paper, but in actual use it is mediocre to bloody awful".
It is also expensive, due to this no rounds can be wasted. For example in the 1967 Israeli Egyptian war only one R 530 was fired in anger by Israel."

 

Italy's Selenia was right and you and Dassailt were/are WRONG.

 

Sparrow would have worked better.  It was designed to down FIGHTERS and so it did. Just not at the 50% PK hoped..

 

Herald