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Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes    1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM
Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?
 
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eighty-eight       6/30/2008 10:52:09 PM
Just browsing through this thread and wondering if anyone has considered the wider influences of a conflict between these two nations. Both countries have many expats living abroad in many countries, what is the reaction from these likely to be?
 
Melbourne has large populations of both, indeed the largest population of greeks outside of greece lives here for some reason. Would there be fighting between expat communities. A conflict between their armed forces might not last long but I would bet their respective overseas populations would carry on the fight.
 
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Costas       7/1/2008 8:20:09 AM
 
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jmk3438       11/1/2008 3:02:59 PM
Well first of all, its never going to happen! Greece is part of the EU and if Greece goes to war, other countries will follow. Also, if both countries go to war, it will set both countries back. Turkey and Greece would be in trouble if that happens. Secondly, On paper, Turkey would would most likely win becasue of the poplulation gap, however, dont forget, out of the 70 million population, about 30 or so are kurds, and i hear that the turks and kurds are not the best of friends. Thirdly , Militarly, Turkey by far has a larger army but greece has one of the best airforce in the balkan area and by far the best Navy. I dont think Turkey is  stronger in that department. Fourthly, Greece economicaly, is better off than Turkey, Although in recent years, turkey is improving there economy, Turkey still lags behind  greece in many aspects such as economy, reale-estate, tourism, and other things as well. I know Turkey wants to be part of the EU, but greece and a few other countries in Europe are against that turkey entering the EU. Turkey has issues to confront first before being considered in the EU. like giving back CYPRUS to the Cyprians. Fifth, Weapenry , both countries spend billions of dollars in missle defense, fighters, etc
I know for a fact, that the Greek Airforce pilots are very well trained, just the Isreal.
 
 
who's better:
 
Soldiers on ground: Turkey wins
Missles and weaponry:  TIE
Navy: Greece wins
Airforce: Greece wins
Advanced Technology: Greece is slightly favored, although Greece purchases alot of weaponry from foreign countries
Economicaly Greece Wins
Backup: Greece wins-> more countries will support Greece then would Turkey
 
Dont forget everybody, Turks dont hate the world like some other countries do, they have the european culture in them and alot do resemble greeks in a way, the real greeks are fair skin and blue or hazel eyes, just like Alexander was. Greece was occupied by Turkey for 400 years and who knows, i bet some greeks today living in greece , probably have a little turkish blood in us. Grece Ruled all of asia and half of italy in acient times, they lost so much land  and suffered in the course of 2000 years.
 
 
Lets put it this way, Both Athens and Istanbul will be destroyed of they both go to war.
Everybody thought that U.S will suffer a low casualty rate against the war in iraq, well were kinda wrong, u think?
 
IN WAR NOBODY WINS!
 
 
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kane       11/1/2008 8:36:27 PM
^You're pretty right in many points....but do not underestimate Turkish air force...I doN't want to sounds subjective but Turkish pilots are also among succesfull ones among NATO.
Greek navy is better but not waay better. The gap between is not as large as it's thought. The thing is, Greek defence system is much better....screw war. Peace between Greece-Turkey ftw...after all we can't be that different(except fo religion) after all thoese yaers we've lived together.

 
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Geezer       11/16/2008 9:20:00 PM
Here is a political map of Greece, so as to see the LAND border with Turkey:
http://www.marinaapartments.gr/www/images/greece-map.gif

Here are a couple of geophysical maps of Greece:
http://www.robolo.org/inforest/map/raster/grelev2.png
http://www.in2greece.com/english/maps/map_of_Ancient_Greece.jpg


 
 
The land border is in Thrace region (Greece has western Thrace and Turkey Eastern) and actually the border line is the river Evros.
Across each side of the river each country deploys guardposts, optical reconaissance is constant. Also patrols along the river banks are launched on a daily basis.

Also take into consideration that both sides secret sevices spy each others forces, hardcorely and constantly. There will be no significant movement of troops out of barracks - even far far away of the conflict theatre-  with the other side not knowing of it, period. The same goes with the navy fleets.

Every time that one side goes out for large scale manouvres the other one goes too, so as noone is going to be cought by a surprise attach by land or sea. If one cancels a manouvre the other one does also, etc.

A small/medium air raid might occur "surprisingly", but here the Greeks have the edge since they have an advanced air defence and early wearning system.

-S300   (SA-20)                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-20_Gargoyle
-MIM-104 Patriot               http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot
-Tor M1  (SA-15)               http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-15_Gauntlet
-OSA (SA-8)                     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-8_Gecko
-Crotale NG                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotale_missile
-Improved MIM-23 Hawk     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-23_Hawk
-Skyguard Velos (AIM-7)    http://www.ellinikos-stratos.com/aeroporia/images/skyguard3.jpg
-ASRAD                           http://www.ellinikos-stratos.com/stratos/images/asrad_big.jpg

All the above together are interconnected (even the Russian with NATO equipment) as a sinlge grid. No further comment about its capability, whoever knows a thing or two about antiaircraft systems can understand.


If you check the maps above you can easily understand that the radars stationed in the Greek islands -some of them just a few kilometers from the Turkish coast-  can track deep into Turkish soil.

I dont know if any of you heard of the "virtual" dogfights of HAF and TUAF over the Aegean. THis is exactly what i point. Whenever the Greek early warning sees tuaf's aircraft moving towards Greece, interceptors (F-16s or M-2005s) scrabble to check the enemy. Then they dogfight (just chase and lock one another, no real fire) until one of them backs off or fuel finish....  every now and then, due to the extremes taken by the pilots some aircraft crash and pilots die.

So a significant surprise attack more or less is out of reality.

 
 
The land conflict now will take place in either Thrace or in the islands.

Now check the geophysical map of Thrace (border region with turkey) on maps provided above.  You will find out that on the turkish side of the river Evros there is a vast open plane, whereas on the Greek side there are hills and mountains. In fact the ground starts to elevate exactly next to the Greek riverside, which is steep.

On these hills Greek artillery will be deployed, as well as antitank missilles, Kornets, Milans, Tows, you name it. Considering no airforces, it will be a textbook turkey shoot. :)


And yes the turks have axperienced special forces fighting in mountains and hills (not sure about their effectiveness though since PKK is very alive and kicking despite decades of turkish operations), but you cannot pass heavy vehicles and equipment through mountains.

After the first block of mountains exactly at the border line, behind a big river, there is a thin plane (as you can see in the geophysical map) which will be full of Leopard 2, BMP-3, setc. AND after this there are mountains again... and again...

 
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pseudocode       11/30/2008 3:52:25 AM
If any war like this happens without intervention of other countries and lasts till end, there would be no country named Greece in the world map anymore. Numbers always matter;
 
Turkey has,
10 times more manpower
35 times more money in reserves
50 times more oil reserves
5 times more labor power ( to  compensate war losses)
 
minor military advantages on different aspects for both sides
 
 But in real life there can't be a war like this  due to lots of factors, and even if there would be it couldn't last till end without intervention of 3rd parties.
 
I am neither Greek or Turk.
 
 


 
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doggone       11/30/2008 5:50:27 PM
The question is:  Which country is least worse.?
 
That would be Turkey, but not by much. If either country could top the other in a conflict, NATO aside of course, that country wouldn't have the power, or economy, to rebuild and reform, much less contain and restrain the other. Turkey couldn't even rebuild tiny little north Cyprus for crying out loud. The only thing left would be to take the scraps of whatever is left of one's military and go home. That's not really much of a win.
 
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thanamestolga       12/1/2008 2:14:24 PM
Well were talking about if they ever DO go to war
which i highly doubt
Turkey and Greece arent much of rivals anymore
lol, hell there's Greek soldiers in Izmir Turkey right now
if you dont believe me
write "Operation Destined Glory"
its a military exercise type thing with both Turks and Greeks
plus we wouldnt dare attack Greece, not cause of their Forces
because were trying to get into the European Union
they dont want Turkey
why?
cause were muslim?
haha, if thats the reason then i dont want to be in the European Union
cause that would be very stupid of europeans to judge us like that...
but back to the rivalry
Greece has a better Navy
wait.. a much better navy, they're experienced and everyone knows that
but then the greeks would have to admit that we can whoop them on land
because we have experience with this whole PKK deal going on
Air, would be a problem cause both Turkey and Greece have very good Air Forces
personally i like the mock dogfights
it just goes to show that were not interested in killing eachother
but rather showing our skills with eachother
but i wish we were more than allies with greece
cause put both nations together... and you got a problem bigger than russia

 
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H.A.F       12/11/2008 10:57:13 PM

there are 5-6 turks for every greek.  weaponry being generally
similar the sheer numbers are likely going to be unstoppable.
i would like to remind you who has one of the best pilots in the world..i dont give a fuck about the numbers..HONOR,DUTY,BRAVERY that counts on the battlefield..Everyday over MY aegean see you used to be fucked...And your mission is to get fucked from us!!!YOU TRY TO FLY OVER US WE FLY OVER YOUR FLAG.......

 
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kane       12/14/2008 8:11:10 AM



there are 5-6 turks for every greek.  weaponry being generally


similar the sheer numbers are likely going to be unstoppable.


i would like to remind you who has one of the best pilots in the world..i dont give a fuck about the numbers..HONOR,DUTY,BRAVERY that counts on the battlefield..Everyday over MY aegean see you used to be fucked...And your mission is to get fucked from us!!!YOU TRY TO FLY OVER US WE FLY OVER YOUR FLAG.......



Whoa chill out....
-how do you know your pilots are superior to your "enemies"?
-We have no honor and bravery of course....we are savages ;)
-When Atatürk retook &&04;zmir they put Greece's flag in front of him for him to walk over it becaue previous Greek commander did that to Turkish flag. Atatürk refused that and said " a flag is a symbol of a nation's freedom and it has to be respected"
This happened after you swam in YOUR Aegean sea.

 
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