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Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes    1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM
Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?
 
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turk4lyf       2/11/2008 9:07:33 AM
Can everyone stfu about football results, like that really makes a difference on the battlefield (sorry, is this damn topic about football or the military success of turkey)?

goddammit.

 
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le_corsaire       2/11/2008 9:37:57 AM

"People always talk about dying for there country, but never of killing for there country".
...
 Manpower is important, and if discipline, especially the likes of what Turkey enforces on the battlefield, will influence it, then let it be. Im fed up about all this democratic BS that men should be treated well on the battle field. Discipline of the kind isnt barbaric, the battle field is a nasty place, not a play ground.

Its a doggy dog world.

It is not about democratic BS it is about whether this type of "discipline" really increases your efficiency and effectiveness or not. In general there is enough evidence that with good leadership and good training you should be able to live without destroying your people. This type of "discipline" is typically used if you have a bunch of untrained recruits in the field which you have not carefully selected before (as the Russians had in WWII ... when they had to use every man available and no time for any training etc.) and you do not know how the crowd will behave.  So if your discipline in the field is primarily based on such enforcements you might want to aske yourself what you did wrong before ...

 
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le_corsaire       2/11/2008 10:13:16 AM

Can everyone stfu about football results, like that really makes a difference on the battlefield (sorry, is this damn topic about football or the military success of turkey)?

goddammit.



I originally thought the whole discussion is about information of which equipment/doctrine/logistic support/etc. each of these countries has today. Who cares about "past military success" ? And even worse about "how many bullets a Greek person can take" (I could give you my bet of how many ... ) ... thats ridiculous.
 
What would be interesting is e.g. if and how Greece was able to setup interoperability between their SA8, SA20 and their Patriots and how tightly they are really integrated, etc. How the logistic is organized with all their diversified systems (which I think can be problematic). Other intersting aspects are how e.g. Greece perception is concerning "lower-price" defence systems (like surface launched AMRAAMS) like Spain operates.
 
 
 
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Steffan       2/11/2008 10:54:27 PM
It's hard to call.... I think in large part it would depend on who got the better first shots in. 

Greece is not exactly a country that I'd want to invest -- far too many islands.  They have a smaller population, true, but their military is comparable to Turkey's.  Both countries have very long military histories, and almost as long-lived hatred of each other; try wearing a Greek flag patch in a Turkish town if you like pain. 

The fall of Troy was one short episode in a very very long list of similar episodes. 

I agree that Turkey would probably win the war of attrition -- the Greeks can only produce so many evzones every year.  I would think, though, that the Greek Navy would win their part of the war; they have all those islands to work from, and half of the Turkish Navy is north of Gallipoli.  The Bosphorus is too easy to close.

  It would not, however, surprise me one bit to learn that the Greeks and Turks are actively planning their version of the Franco-Prussian War.  Their enmity goes far deeper, and for far too many better reasons.

 
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Steffan       2/11/2008 11:03:34 PM

I think it would depend upon the circumstances and where the war was fought.  If Greece invaded Turkey I think the Turks would win.  If the Turks invaded Greece I think the Greeks could force a strategic stalemate.  Both nations are Western and have access to the internet and media, so it becomes a question of how many casualties the citizens of both countries can tolerate.   In both cases once the casualty reports started rolling in and mothers of dead soldiers started showing up on TV I'm sure public support for a protracted campaign would start to wane.  I'm sure NATO pressure would also be intense, with some of the major NATO countries threatening to cut off military aid.  The aggressor country would surely already know this and would try to achieve its military goals as quickly as possible so it will be in a good bargaining position when a ceasefire is declared. 

There's also the small question about who else is going to butt in.  The Turks will very likely find themselves facing the Kurds as well....  other Muslim countries might come in on the Turkish side, but Arabs also have long memories and they specifically remember the Ottomans.  Iran might stick their noses in just to stir up trouble, which will also evoke other bad memories.  It's entirely possible that a Greek-Turk fight would end up involving half of the Middle East. 

The last time the Greeks and Turks got into it, over Cyprus, the US Congress cut off all foreign aid to Turkey.  The Turks were less than pleased about that.  That was not a fun time to be an American soldier in Turkey. 

 
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GREEK 4 EVER!!       2/12/2008 12:53:02 PM
yep thats another question who or what will america,england,austrailia and other key countrys do and to the guy who just spoke i swear that the muslim nations hate or dont count turkey as a muslim country, i might be wrong but could someone refresh my memory please.
 
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kane       2/12/2008 1:32:40 PM
this is a comparison between Turkey and Greece on one on one...if we add the possible real world events a war is already very unlikely.
 
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GREEK 4 EVER!!       2/12/2008 3:11:08 PM
yep thats another question who or what will america,england,austrailia and other key countrys do and to the guy who just spoke i swear that the muslim nations hate or dont count turkey as a muslim country, i might be wrong but could someone refresh my memory please.
 
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GREEK 4 EVER!!       2/12/2008 3:17:36 PM

this is a comparison between Turkey and Greece on one on one...if we add the possible real world events a war is already very unlikely.
oh ok then mate

 
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kane       2/13/2008 3:21:24 PM
Countries do not support each other because of their religious similarities unless they have political interests. You don't have any allies in politics you only have "interests"..(in some cases supporting a country of same religion could be usefull though)

Who supports who....that changes really. It's not necessary to think about it for this thread.

 
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