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Subject: New (17/11) aggressive behaviour by Israeli pilots against French units in Lebanon
Alexis    11/17/2006 7:02:24 PM
I haven't found a link in English yet. Here is one in French : http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/20061117.WWW000000454_nouvel_incident_entre_avions_israeliens_et_casques_bleus_francais_au_liban.html In a nutshell : 2 Israeli F15 overflew at low altitude and high speed UNIFIL French positions while 2 Israeli reconnaissance aircraft were circling the French HQ in Lebanon. Again, French soldiers prepared themselves to shoot down the aggressive planes. Again, they kept enough cold blood not to do it. What is very troubling is that this is the SECOND such incident (first was 31/10) The first one could be explained away as "some moronic pilots thought they could prove their manhood by risking their aircraft and life, which led to their superiors hanging them out to dry, but privately so, denying the incident in public" The second such incident proves that either Israeli superiors are VERY stupid (not probable, though not entirely impossible : the operative word would be hubris), either this is a POLICY. The second possibility would mean that the Israeli government, or at least elements of the military high command, are pushing for an incident to happen, that such a provocation would result in missiles being fired at the seeming aggressors and either an Israeli fighter plus its pilot would be lost (more probable) or at least if the missile did not hit an hostile act would have happened. Play with feelings of some moronic pilots, explain them that the French are hostile and that Israeli fighters are invulnerable, and this is what you would obtain : eventually one of those would get himself fired at, probably shot down, probably dead. And then what ? This is really troubling because the objective cannot be the usual anti-French propaganda : you do not lose one of your fighters and one of your pilots just for propaganda. Could the objective be to try to terminate the UNIFIL mission by frightening away its member nations ? Could it be to justify new Israeli attacks in Lebanon, aimed at UNIFIL, using the numbers of Israeli armed forces to overcome the well-armed but few in numbers French contingent ? (the other UNIFIL contingents don't have MBTs nor artillery) That hypothesis would be SO moronic (so much of hubris, to use a more precise word) that one has to retain doubts. However, this series of provocations HAS to have an objective.
 
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Claymore       11/17/2006 7:03:58 PM
The French are only working 9am to 5pm anyway.

The rest of the time they are relaxing on the beach and not paying attention to truck loads of rockets comming over the syrian boarder

 
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Alexis    The link !   11/17/2006 7:07:06 PM
 
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ya2       11/17/2006 7:11:16 PM
i'm not sure it's good for the french soldiers on the ships to shot down an israeli plane... their whole flee can be drown in minutes..
 
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Alexis       11/17/2006 7:13:35 PM

i'm not sure it's good for the french soldiers on the ships to shot down an israeli plane... their whole flee can be drown in minutes..



On the facts : we're speaking about ground forces.
 
On the tone : this is serious matter. Bragging and other histrionics are not called for.
 
 
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tweetybird       11/17/2006 7:16:46 PM
you do not lose one of your fighters and one of your pilots just for propaganda. Could the objective be to try to terminate the UNIFIL mission by frightening away its member nations ?
 
That would give a complete new dimension to the tactics of shoot and scoot.
 
(Glad they kept their sangfroid though)
 
 
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YelliChink       11/17/2006 7:31:24 PM
There is something fishy about this. It doesn't sound like "business as usual" reconnaissance missions and escorts. It sounds me more like that IAF is testing somebody's air-defense responsiveness. As far as I know, there is no presence of French Aster batteries, but Syria has some S-300 systems. My opinion on this is that French government is overreacting for mysterious reasons. Israelis won't attack French troops, since they know French military presence in the area is no threat to Israel, and French military attack on Israel will be retaliated by other major powers plus Israel. However, by presenting French troops as the protector of southern Lebanon and denigrate Israelis as bad guys as typical Arab tunes, French government may hope that they can avoid to be targeted by the POG. The POG wil strike Israel again, and IAF, being a responsible branch of Israeli Defense Forces, is collecting intelligence for the very possible future conflict. French government should withdraw their troops from Lebanon, at least to north of Litani river, before things get nasty again, which it will. Being an outsider is much better than getting in between both sides of the conflict. Let Chinese and Indonesian have the trouble, that's the best strategy.
 
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Yimmy       11/17/2006 7:41:08 PM
I assume people do realise that every time an Israeli warplane enters Lebanon air-space it is a breach of international law and an act of war?
 
Can you imagine how the response would be different if we were talking about Iranian F14's breaching Kuwaiti air-space?
 
 
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Pseudonym       11/17/2006 8:34:12 PM
"I assume people do realise that every time an Israeli warplane enters Lebanon air-space it is a breach of international law and an act of war?
 
Can you imagine how the response would be different if we were talking about Iranian F14's breaching Kuwaiti air-space?"

Thank God I'm an American.

At least Israel understands the whole "Leave No Man Behind" faith.  There are men behind, and until that changes Hizb'Allah and the Lebanese harboring them is the instigator of a war with Israel.

Lebanon has ceded control of its country to a terrorist organization, it no longer has any claim to soverign rights.
 
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Yimmy       11/17/2006 8:44:03 PM


Lebanon has ceded control of its country to a terrorist organization, it no longer has any claim to soverign rights.


Well, it's good of you to decide that on behalf of the international community.
 
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DarthAmerica       11/17/2006 8:53:46 PM

"I assume people do
realise that every time an Israeli warplane enters Lebanon air-space it
is a breach of international law and an act of war?

 

Can you imagine how the response would be different if we were talking about Iranian F14's breaching Kuwaiti air-space?"

Thank God I'm an American.

At least Israel understands the whole "Leave No Man Behind" faith.  There are men behind, and until that changes Hizb'Allah and the Lebanese harboring them is the instigator of a war with Israel.

Lebanon has ceded control of its country to a terrorist organization, it no longer has any claim to soverign rights.

I'd personally love to see Israel blast the UN out of Lebanon. When you really look at it the UN is facilitating the hijacking of a government and provided an umbrella of protection for terrorist.
 
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