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Subject: THIRD FRENCH EMPIRE: Can the UK stop it?!?!?!
Godofgamblers    8/24/2006 4:42:38 AM
Wishing to write his name into the history books, Jaacques Chirac resolves to establish the THIRD FRENCH EMPIRE. He secures the agreement of some major Arab states (Lebanon, Syria and Palestine) to join a French commonwealth leading to a merger of states. Many other Arab states consider the motion, hoping to create a counterweight in the region to the US/Israel bloc and considering the sizable number of Arabs living in France. As for Africa, Chirac decides to take it outright as part of the new French empire. Some Arab countries such as Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia will be allowed to maintain puppet goverments for historic reasons, however. As a sign that he means business, French marines land at Valletta with CAS from 70 Rafales from the CdG. SEAD neturalizes Malta Int’l Airport. Malta’s Bulldog fighters are no match for the French airforce. Sorties are launched from Corsica and CdG to destroy Malta’s military capability. French Legionnaires from Djibouti land and take Hal-Far and other important military objectives. Once air supremacy is achieved, Malta’s military forces are identified, targetted and neutralized, and regular French army units supported by 100 LeClercs land at the ports of Birrzebbuga and Marsaxlokk, sealing Malta’s fate. Africa watches in shock as the French Tricolore flies above Malta’s Parliament. Chirac publicly proclaims that Malta will serve as the stepping stone to ops in Africa should some countries be non-compliant. Coffee literally flies out of Tony Blair’s nose as he reads the morning paper: FRANCE TAKES MALTA IN LIGHTNING ATTACK. For historic reasons, he would like to free Malta. However, a few quick phonecalls reveal that the EU and the US will not interfere in this matter. In fact, the US is glad that the French will be taking a more active role in the ME and too many of their forces are engaged in Iraq to help out the Brits anyway. This will be another Faklands type war, Bush advises. Chirac calls and tells Blair that he must condone and accept the French invasion publicly. Chirac will be beginning his Africa drive and doesn’t want any hiccups. Blair stares into space wondering what he can do faced with this ‘fait accompli’… If he chooses to rush to Malta’s aid, it won’t be the Belgrano he’ll be facing but the CdG in a warzone dotted with French military bases… should he really stir up the hornet’s nest? The Question IS: Does Britain have the military wherewithal to wrest Malta from the French without (1) going nuclear (2) receiving aid from other countries (3) attacking France proper (for fear of escalation)?
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TDidier    RE:THIRD FRENCH EMPI Can the UK stop it?!?!?!   8/24/2006 8:06:01 AM
1) 30 Rafales on CDG is a maximum. 2) To step across Mediterranee to join Africa coast we use our aircraft-carriers and large surface landing ships to step as far as Lybian coast (as french helos forces are training to do - generaly 100 helos are involved in those exercises-) as it was drove since the late 80's to explain to Kadhafi that: "stop to roll on our b*lls". For the scenarion: why not but I don't know what UK would be able to do alone regarding that surprise effect is completly in french favor. Give more card to this dear Tony or he would be in impossibility to do anything but an ulcere...
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Associator    RE:THIRD FRENCH EMPI Can the UK stop it?!?!?!   8/24/2006 10:58:10 AM
Are you guys serious? The Charles DeGualle? Britian can probably wait out the CDG untill it breaks down and has to return to port. Or until it's air group launch a strike that is beyond their range and have to make a landing in some other country. Sort of what happened last year in the Atlantic when the planes landed in New Jersey. Oh yeah, they didn't have money to pay fuel so they could leave. I'll admit, I am not a big fan of the French. No surprise. I give them credit where due, I've worked with FFL and Regular troops and found them to be good, dedicated men and women in my experience. But, in all things naval, I'll go with the odds and past history and put my money on the Brits and the Royal Navy. They win because they are better, and just because they will not allow themselves to lose to the French Navy.
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The Lizard King    In any war scenario with France   8/24/2006 1:15:21 PM
all you have to do is wait for the French People to go on strike.
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neofire1000    RE:THIRD FRENCH EMPI Can the UK stop it?!?!?!   8/24/2006 1:19:36 PM
I thinks it's difficult to say, what is clear that although the UK only have small carriers at the moment, they outnumber the French giving them a distinct advantage. Then there's the experience, no country in the world has been engaged in more fighting over the last century than the brits and I believe that weighs heavy in any combat situation, they are a VERY experienced force. The French are good dedicated men and women just like Associator mentioned but I don't think they would be able to handle a sustained battle with the UK and I think the Royal Navy would win against them. However..........In a real situation do you think Tony Blair would go to war against another large european power?, i think he would push for US pressure and UN peacekeepers. I am not a huge fan of the French either (Nothing personal to french posters) due to a minority of french postings blowing their own trumpet time after time but if push came to shove then the combination of highly trained ground troops, superb navy and RAF would win a battle with the French........oops i just said it, sorry french guys!!! gonna have some french fries for dinner now..:)
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Norvicension    RE:THIRD FRENCH EMPI Can the UK stop it?!?!?!   8/24/2006 7:32:49 PM
Don't you mean 'liberty fries'? ;)
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Godofgamblers    French bases    8/24/2006 8:12:41 PM
The French would have a very strong position in the Med. Think of all the bases they would have to work from as well as the position of the French fleet at Toulon which could head off British naval forces before they even came close to Malta! Africa too is French territory because of its bases in Djibouti and Chad. I don't think the Brit carriers would even get close to Malta.
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MetalStorm    RE:THIRD FRENCH EMPI Can the UK stop it?!?!?!   8/24/2006 8:30:20 PM
"He secures the agreement of some major Arab states (Lebanon, Syria and Palestine) to join a French commonwealth leading to a merger of states." HAHA, France is definately going to need some better "major arab states" than these! Israel would bi*ch slap all three of these states at the same time. Unlike the US Israel does what is really best for its national security, which means ignoring the UN.
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Godofgamblers    despite the French bashing on this board, it has been shown...   8/24/2006 9:52:02 PM
i think the conclusion is clear: France could take most of africa with little problem. it does have the diplomatic clout and influence to establish a union of arab states. the UK does not have the power to stand up to france in the Med. none of the critiques of the foregoing were even serious enough for me to address. so, despite the oft repeated jibes at France and mockery of France, it would seem that it can project power over a large area and even the UK would not dare challenge France in its own territory. glad that's cleared up.
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gf0012-aust    RE:French bases    8/24/2006 9:56:15 PM
"I don't think the Brit carriers would even get close to Malta." you don't need carriers to deal with the french. I'd stick RN submariners against their french counterparts any day of the week. and, seriously, you have to be joking if you honestly think that the french navy is even remotely capable of mixing it up against the RN. you have to be even more disingenuine if you think that the last 40 years of actual military experience of the french vs the UK equates to something of military substance. Its certainly not something to imply military competency across the various disciplines. A country that has magnificently disproportionate exposure at the engagement and participation level (vis a vis UK), cannot just suddenly demonstrate "grand plan" competency. the tragedy is that in this scenario you're trying to load the "geographic" bases so as to give the french some kind of demographic strategic and tactical advantage. I can think of 4-6 nations on the medrim that would be more than happy to feed the UK intel on french movements. I can certainly think of a few african powers who would also be more than willing to provide staging facilities to the UK to counter french rotations out of chad or djibouti. all a bit disingenuine in intent.... the reality is that unless the french try to load the stats (as in this scenario), they've got no hope of waxing a UK clock. One on one with realistic staging options? no chance. a messy draw maybe, but a victory? a decidedly resounding "non".
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Godofgamblers    RE:armee de l'air gf0012   8/24/2006 10:08:02 PM
i don't know if it's 'stacking the deck' as you suggest, gf0012. a confrontation would not be on paper... if you want to talk about a real confrontation then geography would be an avoidable consideration. i have chosen a theater that is close to france, true, but in any confrontation, geography, distance, bases, etc would be a factor... and in this case, france would be unbeatable. the falklands showed the effectiveness of french kit against UK surface targets... now imagine that instead of going up against a few argentinean pilots, the RN would be under attack from the Armee de l'Air! i give the UK the edge in terms of experience, but this would be a sea/air war of unprecedented proportions.... My God, the damage to the RN would be catastrophic...
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