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Subject: THIRD FRENCH EMPIRE: Can the UK stop it?!?!?!
Godofgamblers    8/24/2006 4:42:38 AM
Wishing to write his name into the history books, Jaacques Chirac resolves to establish the THIRD FRENCH EMPIRE. He secures the agreement of some major Arab states (Lebanon, Syria and Palestine) to join a French commonwealth leading to a merger of states. Many other Arab states consider the motion, hoping to create a counterweight in the region to the US/Israel bloc and considering the sizable number of Arabs living in France. As for Africa, Chirac decides to take it outright as part of the new French empire. Some Arab countries such as Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia will be allowed to maintain puppet goverments for historic reasons, however. As a sign that he means business, French marines land at Valletta with CAS from 70 Rafales from the CdG. SEAD neturalizes Malta Int’l Airport. Malta’s Bulldog fighters are no match for the French airforce. Sorties are launched from Corsica and CdG to destroy Malta’s military capability. French Legionnaires from Djibouti land and take Hal-Far and other important military objectives. Once air supremacy is achieved, Malta’s military forces are identified, targetted and neutralized, and regular French army units supported by 100 LeClercs land at the ports of Birrzebbuga and Marsaxlokk, sealing Malta’s fate. Africa watches in shock as the French Tricolore flies above Malta’s Parliament. Chirac publicly proclaims that Malta will serve as the stepping stone to ops in Africa should some countries be non-compliant. Coffee literally flies out of Tony Blair’s nose as he reads the morning paper: FRANCE TAKES MALTA IN LIGHTNING ATTACK. For historic reasons, he would like to free Malta. However, a few quick phonecalls reveal that the EU and the US will not interfere in this matter. In fact, the US is glad that the French will be taking a more active role in the ME and too many of their forces are engaged in Iraq to help out the Brits anyway. This will be another Faklands type war, Bush advises. Chirac calls and tells Blair that he must condone and accept the French invasion publicly. Chirac will be beginning his Africa drive and doesn’t want any hiccups. Blair stares into space wondering what he can do faced with this ‘fait accompli’… If he chooses to rush to Malta’s aid, it won’t be the Belgrano he’ll be facing but the CdG in a warzone dotted with French military bases… should he really stir up the hornet’s nest? The Question IS: Does Britain have the military wherewithal to wrest Malta from the French without (1) going nuclear (2) receiving aid from other countries (3) attacking France proper (for fear of escalation)?
 
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Carl S       8/26/2006 3:28:47 AM
My British would not play by the rules stipulated above & pay the Germans, plus any other 'coalition' partners to attack France overland. The BAORwould look cute attacking southwards thru Belgium towards Paris. I lke this. Gives us something to do with all those old NATO/PACT WWIII games in the closet.
 
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andyf       8/26/2006 8:26:25 AM

heres an idea for you..

uk does a deal with spain,

 you attack france with us, we give you gibraltar back

what do you reckon?

 
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TDidier       8/26/2006 9:56:52 AM
Nice, but don't forget that UK has no one airfield in this aera (or Maybe Gibraltar but a bit small for large operations), then I gess that every body will agree over a total french air-dominance. Then no-one brit patrol aircraft to support the Royal Navy but all Atlantiques and Nord262 from La Royale at subs hunting. How long would UK keep his "11 strong sub force" in those conditions?
Another remarque, France has 6 Rubis class nuclear subs and 4 Agosta diesel in stock.

About Spain, don't forget that they have a bit concern about theyre North-african possessions. Then if they have to choose, I gess they would have a big preference to not push France to help Morocco to conquere back those place and spaniards (if taking back Gibraltar is on theyre agenda, and we know it is) would probably enjoying the UK Navy big challenge with La Royale to jump on the rock with everuthing they have as troops and weapons...
 
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TDidier       8/26/2006 10:18:19 AM
Nice, but don't forget that UK has no one airfield in this aera (or Maybe Gibraltar but a bit small for large operations), then I gess that every body will agree over a total french air-dominance. Then no-one brit patrol aircraft to support the Royal Navy but all Atlantiques and Nord262 from La Royale at subs hunting. How long would UK keep his "11 strong sub force" in those conditions?
Another remarque, France has 6 Rubis class nuclear subs and 4 Agosta diesel in stock.

About Spain, don't forget that they have a bit concern about theyre North-african possessions. Then if they have to choose, I gess they would have a big preference to not push France to help Morocco to conquere back those place and spaniards (if taking back Gibraltar is on theyre agenda, and we know it is) would probably enjoying the UK Navy big challenge with La Royale to jump on the rock with everuthing they have as troops and weapons...
 
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TDidier       8/26/2006 10:36:32 AM
Nice, but don't forget that UK has no one airfield in this aera (or Maybe Gibraltar but a bit small for large operations), then I gess that every body will agree over a total french air-dominance. Then no-one brit patrol aircraft to support the Royal Navy but all Atlantiques and Nord262 from La Royale at subs hunting. How long would UK keep his "11 strong sub force" in those conditions?
Another remarque, France has 6 Rubis class nuclear subs and 4 Agosta diesel in stock.

About Spain, don't forget that they have a bit concern about theyre North-african possessions. Then if they have to choose, I gess they would have a big preference to not push France to help Morocco to conquere back those place and spaniards (if taking back Gibraltar is on theyre agenda, and we know it is) would probably enjoying the UK Navy big challenge with La Royale to jump on the rock with everuthing they have as troops and weapons...
 
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TDidier       8/26/2006 10:48:09 AM
Nice, but don't forget that UK has no one airfield in this aera (or Maybe Gibraltar but a bit small for large operations), then I gess that every body will agree over a total french air-dominance. Then no-one brit patrol aircraft to support the Royal Navy but all Atlantiques and Nord262 from La Royale at subs hunting. How long would UK keep his "11 strong sub force" in those conditions?
Another remarque, France has 6 Rubis class nuclear subs and 4 Agosta diesel in stock.

About Spain, don't forget that they have a bit concern about theyre North-african possessions. Then if they have to choose, I gess they would have a big preference to not push France to help Morocco to conquere back those place and spaniards (if taking back Gibraltar is on theyre agenda, and we know it is) would probably enjoying the UK Navy big challenge with La Royale to jump on the rock with everuthing they have as troops and weapons...
 
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neofire1000       8/26/2006 11:07:11 AM

Tell me why the brits can't use aircraft to defend the navy, you must also remember that the 3rd carrier HMS illustrious is mothballed to be brought back into service, they say within 18 months but i'm sure it could be quicker given the situation, that gives the brits 3 carriers. At the moment the third carrier is to be out of service until 2010, then the prgramme of bringing back into service would depend on the situation.

With less equipment and one carrier the UK managed to gain air superiority thousands of miles away from home turf in 1982, something they could do better now.

Also if we are talking farther in the future then we have the possibility of the new CVF and F35 joint strike fighter, we also have eurofighter in service, type 45 destroyer (although only 8), that is a credible air defence or offence capability which shouldn't be dismissed like you guys seem to do at every turn.

Britin has proved at can send a task force thousands of miles and fight, we now have a much better equiped army and many improvements lined up for the future, when is the last time France went to war on it's own in modern history and proved it's worth, all they seem to do is push for diplomatic solutions to everything, the brits are hardened fighters wether you like it or not, and VERY experienced in all types of warfare. The question is you take Frances professional army and pitch it against a professional and battle hardened experienced army then I would go with the latter evrytime, even though France can field about 100000 more troops, we have a great navy, again experienced. I myself am an ex-para and SAS, most of the british army tend to be a bit older than their counterparts worldwide (including the Americans) and more experienced, one thing we will do though is fight like f*** against all odds and when it comes down to it we ARE better, period.

 
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TDidier       8/26/2006 11:37:01 AM
Nice, but don't forget that UK has no one airfield in this aera (or Maybe Gibraltar but a bit small for large operations), then I gess that every body will agree over a total french air-dominance. Then no-one brit patrol aircraft to support the Royal Navy but all Atlantiques and Nord262 from La Royale at subs hunting. How long would UK keep his "11 strong sub force" in those conditions?
Another remarque, France has 6 Rubis class nuclear subs and 4 Agosta diesel in stock.

About Spain, don't forget that they have a bit concern about theyre North-african possessions. Then if they have to choose, I gess they would have a big preference to not push France to help Morocco to conquere back those place and spaniards (if taking back Gibraltar is on theyre agenda, and we know it is) would probably enjoying the UK Navy big challenge with La Royale to jump on the rock with everuthing they have as troops and weapons...
 
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TDidier       8/26/2006 12:56:58 PM
From neofire1000

Tell me why the brits can't use aircraft to defend the navy, you must also remember that the 3rd carrier HMS illustrious is mothballed to be brought back into service, they say within 18 months but i'm sure it could be quicker given the situation, that gives the brits 3 carriers. At the moment the third carrier is to be out of service until 2010, then the prgramme of bringing back into service would depend on the situation.

With less equipment and one carrier the UK managed to gain air superiority thousands of miles away from home turf in 1982, something they could do better now.

->Not "aircrafts", but Nimrod. From where would them take-off? Malta? Gibraltar? Of course none of those two, but from UK only, a long trip to join central med, isn't it?

Harrier are too short to be a threat to Atlantiques and the one who can put the enemy on a map is the one who can sink it, then your surface force is a great danger.

Left is the subs that can try to track french fleet or atempt to break our supply lines, but in a so tiny aera with so much unrestricted patrol aircraft it is suicide.

In 1982, UK had 2 carrier and at least one transformed cargo, UK didn't achieve air-superiority losing a lot of ships to the argentinians assaults. What saved the british forces from anihilation wasn't Harrier but kilometers...

But those carriers would be of no help because too tiny to have a real early warning capability (and no air-defence exept from of the destroyers, but Pakistan would perform as well).

Also if we are talking farther in the future then we have the possibility of the new CVF and F35 joint strike fighter, we also have eurofighter in service, type 45 destroyer (although only 8), that is a credible air defence or offence capability which shouldn't be dismissed like you guys seem to do at every turn.

 

-> In the futur, yes (but about 8 T45? don't dream, if there is 6 it would be great). But in the futur, France would have 2 air-carriers as well and the totality of Royal Navy's electronic warfare and sonar detection would be dependent of french furnishment.

About T45, we have the Horizon (simply comparable), that the first is entering in service yet.

the brits are hardened fighters wether you like it or not, and VERY experienced in all types of warfare. The question is you take Frances professional army and pitch it against a professional and battle hardened experienced army then I would go with the latter evrytime, even though France can field about 100000 more troops, we have a great navy, again experienced. I myself am an ex-para and SAS, most of the british army tend to be a bit older than their counterparts worldwide (including the Americans) and more experienced...

Ok, great. But britishs are training in the same internationnal exercises as the french, about ground experience, both have great specials troops, both have soldiers more mature than most of theire counterparts and both "enjoye" a real war experience. For UK it is on a less regular basis but with more intensivity as in Malouinnes or in Irak and french are in permanent military intervention in Africa since 60 years and all around the world.

Then sorry I would not give an "superman" bonus to the british soldier and I note that french are really more succesfull in anti-guerrilla war since more than 40years (Indochine was a real defeat but we learned quickly as Algeria was a real military victory and since that all around Africa).

 
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neofire1000       8/26/2006 1:02:05 PM

Well i give up, you seem to know more about the UK new ships etc than I do (would love to know where you get your hard facts), and the french are better.

There you go, I can't be bothered with this crap and this is all this site seems to contain.

Have a good day, hope we don't go to war.

 
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