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Subject: THIRD FRENCH EMPIRE: Can the UK stop it?!?!?!
Godofgamblers    8/24/2006 4:42:38 AM
Wishing to write his name into the history books, Jaacques Chirac resolves to establish the THIRD FRENCH EMPIRE. He secures the agreement of some major Arab states (Lebanon, Syria and Palestine) to join a French commonwealth leading to a merger of states. Many other Arab states consider the motion, hoping to create a counterweight in the region to the US/Israel bloc and considering the sizable number of Arabs living in France. As for Africa, Chirac decides to take it outright as part of the new French empire. Some Arab countries such as Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia will be allowed to maintain puppet goverments for historic reasons, however. As a sign that he means business, French marines land at Valletta with CAS from 70 Rafales from the CdG. SEAD neturalizes Malta Int’l Airport. Malta’s Bulldog fighters are no match for the French airforce. Sorties are launched from Corsica and CdG to destroy Malta’s military capability. French Legionnaires from Djibouti land and take Hal-Far and other important military objectives. Once air supremacy is achieved, Malta’s military forces are identified, targetted and neutralized, and regular French army units supported by 100 LeClercs land at the ports of Birrzebbuga and Marsaxlokk, sealing Malta’s fate. Africa watches in shock as the French Tricolore flies above Malta’s Parliament. Chirac publicly proclaims that Malta will serve as the stepping stone to ops in Africa should some countries be non-compliant. Coffee literally flies out of Tony Blair’s nose as he reads the morning paper: FRANCE TAKES MALTA IN LIGHTNING ATTACK. For historic reasons, he would like to free Malta. However, a few quick phonecalls reveal that the EU and the US will not interfere in this matter. In fact, the US is glad that the French will be taking a more active role in the ME and too many of their forces are engaged in Iraq to help out the Brits anyway. This will be another Faklands type war, Bush advises. Chirac calls and tells Blair that he must condone and accept the French invasion publicly. Chirac will be beginning his Africa drive and doesn’t want any hiccups. Blair stares into space wondering what he can do faced with this ‘fait accompli’… If he chooses to rush to Malta’s aid, it won’t be the Belgrano he’ll be facing but the CdG in a warzone dotted with French military bases… should he really stir up the hornet’s nest? The Question IS: Does Britain have the military wherewithal to wrest Malta from the French without (1) going nuclear (2) receiving aid from other countries (3) attacking France proper (for fear of escalation)?
 
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brit cadet       6/25/2009 10:04:12 AM

Ha. It makes sense seeing as that is my dream. To take a less militaristic point on this, France is the centerpeice of the EU. They are one step away from uniting already, so the least provocative and really most beneficial route is to unite the EU then move on to militaristic goals in creating a massive French Empire. However, your idea of this Empire would fall apart in a matter of months. It's too vast to occupy effectively and therefore will fall apart as Nationalism sets in. It would be the shortest lived Empire the world has ever seen.


thats just foolish the eu will never unite
 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:13:59 AM

i think the conclusion is clear: France could take most of africa with little problem. it does have the diplomatic clout and influence to establish a union of arab states. the UK does not have the power to stand up to france in the Med. none of the critiques of the foregoing were even serious enough for me to address.

so, despite the oft repeated jibes at France and mockery of France, it would seem that it can project power over a large area and even the UK would not dare challenge France in its own territory.

glad that's cleared up.

Wow, it's like you read nothing of the preceding posts or went on to assume that it was either opposite day or that those opposing your idea are French-bashers.
 
Oh wait, THAT'S WHAT YOU DID! LOL

 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:20:13 AM

...none of the foregoing critiques were serious enough...

 

So you assuming 70 Rafales on the De Gaulle rather than 30, less than half, is not a serious complaint? Or the fact that the nations you mentioned are either terrorist (Syria), overrun by militants (Lebanon) or not actually existant (Palestine)...? Or that the British have numerical superiority and naval quality?
 
The French are strong in the Mediterranean, and it could make the game very difficult for Britain if it seizes enough airstrips and managed to avoid the MAJOR pittraps you set it up for by recruiting aforementioned states and somehow manages to circumvent the Western pussilinious attitude since WWI.
I'd still side with the odds for Britain though, unless France buids three-four more carriers, in which case it's sealed military between the two forces.
Still, economic sabotage wins the day, the Union dissolves...
 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:21:12 AM
Next time you start a discussion thread you should actually deal with the responses you get.
 
From your attitude it looks more like you should be writing a book.
 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:23:15 AM
That is, the west at large would sabotage France's economy. If even somehow that didn't happen I'm sure the Royal Navy can still hold the Gibraltar Strait.
 
Anyhow, I don't think you should be so keen on integrating more muslims into your territory which this Union would no doubt encourage.
 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:26:37 AM
Though I suppose the attitude is partly explained by the actual French-bashing around this forum (though it is largely explained by the demented opinions of many French posters though it isn't fair to brand the nation at large).
 
Still, you shouldn't lump in and ignore perfectly good and objective ripostes like the first one, Associate and the guy who followed his trail.
 
 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:29:52 AM

"I don't think the Brit carriers would even get close to Malta."

you don't need carriers to deal with the french. I'd stick RN submariners against their french counterparts any day of the week.

and, seriously, you have to be joking if you honestly think that the french navy is even remotely capable of mixing it up against the RN. you have to be even more disingenuine if you think that the last 40 years of actual military experience of the french vs the UK equates to something of military substance. Its certainly not something to imply military competency across the various disciplines. A country that has magnificently disproportionate exposure at the engagement and participation level (vis a vis UK), cannot just suddenly demonstrate "grand plan" competency.

the tragedy is that in this scenario you're trying to load the "geographic" bases so as to give the french some kind of demographic strategic and tactical advantage. I can think of 4-6 nations on the medrim that would be more than happy to feed the UK intel on french movements. I can certainly think of a few african powers who would also be more than willing to provide staging facilities to the UK to counter french rotations out of chad or djibouti.

all a bit disingenuine in intent....

the reality is that unless the french try to load the stats (as in this scenario), they've got no hope of waxing a UK clock.

One on one with realistic staging options? no chance. a messy draw maybe, but a victory? a decidedly resounding "non".


In all fairness the GB is weaker than it used to be too. I hope the Iraqi was has given their navy a bit of a shakedown.
Still, they've shown resiliance over time.
 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:30:53 AM

The carriers on the way will help bulk up the RN significantly though.

 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:37:20 AM

i don't know if it's 'stacking the deck' as you suggest, gf0012. a confrontation would not be on paper... if you want to talk about a real confrontation then geography would be an avoidable consideration. i have chosen a theater that is close to france, true, but in any confrontation, geography, distance, bases, etc would be a factor... and in this case, france would be unbeatable. the falklands showed the effectiveness of french kit against UK surface targets... now imagine that instead of going up against a few argentinean pilots, the RN would be under attack from the Armee de l'Air! i give the UK the edge in terms of experience, but this would be a sea/air war of unprecedented proportions.... My God, the damage to the RN would be catastrophic...

At least you answered his post, that's great progress.
 
The Argentinian airforce wasn't all that bad, and the Brits have a number of bases and friendlies around the world too. Given the fact that the Rafale is a bomb truck I'd give air supremacy to the Brits any day.
I don't really see enough French subs to do 'catastrophic' damage, so that only leaves the idiotic option of nuclear torpedos and tactical nuclear strikes.
 
Sure, it could be a messy draw like GF said, but no way France would win decisively.
 
This is just a castle in the air, you have to ignore economic, diplomatic, demographic, military and technological (design) realities.
 
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cwDeici       6/26/2009 10:40:31 AM
A more realistic option would be to strengthen French involvement in anti-terrorism on the horn of Africa, Algeria and leverage economic power elsewhere... then go from there. Still there'd have to be a MAJOR propaganda domestically and abroad effort to reinvent colonialism under a federal guise.
 
Once world and national opinion has been corraled you can start with the less worthwhile territories that are just unpoopular troublemakers anyway.
 
Taking Malta is just stupid.
 
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