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Subject: Top 10 Military Leaders of all time
whitie    1/3/2004 4:04:19 AM
This is pretty self explanitory but take into the account that by that being a great leader doesnt mean how much land they conquered but for their military prowness, managing victories against all odds or just being well respected by their men
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Timurlane    RE:Top 10 Military Leaders of all time - Ad   1/4/2004 6:52:42 PM
A few comments: 1. Subotai vs Genghis Khan - Now doubt that Subotai was a master at directing the Mongol war machine, but it is not clear to me that Subotai was the genius behind the original instrument. Was Subotai the creator, or just an excellent student? When in doubt, I give credit to Genghis Khan. At the very minimum he was an astute judge of men. 2. Napoleon vs Wellington - I still go with Napoleon. I have always felt that Napoleons career should be divided into 2 periods, before Aspern-Essling (1809) and after. In the latter part of Napoleon's career he was prone to bouts of lethargy which caused him to miss crucial opportunities. The spark appears to have left him. In addition, Napoleon suffered from the same phenemenon that had contributed to Hannibal's eventual defeat, namely overfamiliarity of his enemies with his methods. Wellington and Blucher agreed to support each other before Waterloo because they understood Napoleonic strategy. They knew he would probably try to interpose himself between the two armies and destroy each in detail while they were beyond mutual support. While Wellington was an excellent general, I see no sign of the innovation or genius displayed in Napoleon's campaigns. Wellington appears to me to have been a realist that understood the strengths and limitations of the army he commanded, as well as the same for the enemies he faced (Sun Tzu would have been proud). He also seems to have had an excellent sense for the overall strategic situation. As for the Battle of Waterloo itself, I am of the opinion that the arrival of the Prussian's was significant to the course of the battle. Had Napoleon supported his late afternoon cavalry attack with his Imperial Guard infantry I believe he would have broken Wellington's center. But, according to Napoleon and his generals, he held the Guard back because of the problems on his right with the Prussian's.
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Wario    RE:Top 10 Military Leaders of all time   1/27/2004 4:40:08 PM
Just a contribution to the Forum: Pachacutec was the one who transformed the small village of Cuzco, in the midle of the andes in the big Empire of the Incas, after his father and brothers abbandoned the citie, surrended by thousends of enemies. He was a great stratege, leader and corageus man, and his empire includes the actual territories of Ecuador,Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Chile and a bit of Colombia.
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Jiun Si    RE:Top 10 Military Leaders of all time   1/27/2004 11:00:38 PM
How about Sun Zi (Mandarin pronunciation), Zhu Geliang (Mandarin pronunciation)-in "Romance of the three Kingdoms", Ganghis Khan (laid the foundation for the Mongols extension) and Mao Zedong (Modern non-parity warfare expert). Sun Zi-Most important and influential military strategist of all time and stand the test of the longest time. Zhu Geliang-Politician and scientist as well.Founded kite and 'hot-air' theories and other flying objects.Well-versed in astrology and meteorology: able to forecast weather and use this element to win crucial battles.Also a great strategist.Historical records show that his dead body was enough to scare off enemies. Ganghis Khan-Founder of the longest and largest stretch of occupied lands across Asia into Eastern Europe before modern history. The above focused on Chinese commanders who had achieved great military accomplishment by world standard.
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Pashtun    RE: Forgot one of the most important leaders!!   1/27/2004 11:30:04 PM
What about Alexander the Great people?!! How can any one forget him? He was a military genius. Great mind. He brought out Hellinistic Culture:The blending of Greek, Persian, and middle eastern cultures. He let the people he conquered to keep their own culture and life. His empire was strong under his leadership.
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Timurlane    RE: Forgot one of the most important leaders!!   1/30/2004 10:03:42 AM
See my post from 1/4 Time: 12:37 I give credit to Alexander
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Szyporyn    RE: Forgot one of the most important leaders!!   2/1/2004 9:56:36 AM
Well well... Many things have been said here, some true some "romantic" babble. Here is my thoughts! The world has never seen as complete a man as Gaius Iulius Caesar, as skilled in Politics & Jura as he was in leading an Army.' This man stopped a rebellion in his Army (only one of some 13 Legions) with one single word (He called them "citizens"). Napoleon himself saw this man as the world finest military mind! Caesar set military records that has only been surpassed with the implementations of mechanics (like the train). The man tamed Gaul within 5 years and they NEVER rebelled (dont read Asterix). Well enough about Caesar here is my list (only 5) 1. Gaius Ilius Caesar 2. Gaius Marius 3. Hannibal (coz of the Lake Trasimene battle) 4. Napeoleon 5. Heinz Guderian
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Pashtun    RE: Timurlane   2/3/2004 11:23:25 PM
My bad i didn't see that post.
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Okoshka    RE:Top 10 Military Leaders of all time   2/4/2004 1:01:58 AM
Genghis kan never was in Europe. One of his grandsons Batu kan invaded East-Europe. And the mongols never reached Austrian territory. They stopped in Hungary in 1242 and left the region in 1243
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Okoshka    RE:Top 10 Military Leaders of all time - Timurlane   2/4/2004 1:37:20 AM
The max what Wellington was able to do for example in Spain was to slow the advance of the French army. On the contrary Suvorov in four different battles destroyed four French armies In Northern-Italy. No French army remained in the region. Napoleon had to return from Egypt. The British become jeallous about his succes and asked the Czar don't let him to advance toward Paris but join to the British led allied armies in Switzerland. Of course the allied Austrian army "forgot" supply them. When the 20 thousand Russian arrived to Switzerland in chest deep snow the allied army already left the territory and Suvorov with his men found themselves in front of 80 thousand French. He could escape most of his men from this situation through the snow covered passes of the Alps. He was army officer from his age of 16 to 76 and as general he didn't lose a war. In spite of that sometimes he was outnumbered four times by the enemy.
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Jiun Si    RE:Top 10 Military Leaders of all time   2/8/2004 2:41:55 AM
Actually, the Mongols cud have fought deeper into Europe if not for their traditional royal custom, if Im not wrong. They had a custom whereby all the princes (usu. military generals too) had to return to Mongolia to attend the Emperor's (their father's) funeral if he died. This incident happened after the Mongols invaded Hungary and though they certainly had the power and intention to invade Austria, they had no choice but to follow their leader to return to Mongolia to attend their Emperor's funeral. So, it remains an unknown if the powerful Mongols cud invade Austria had it not been for their royal custom. However, the fact is that the Europeans at that time were so afraid of these 'mysterious' warriors that they thought the Mongols were 'heavenly soldiers' sent to punish them for their misdeeds.
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