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Subject: EU/USA War, based on a specific scenario
mightypeon    9/14/2005 11:25:31 AM
Well, such a thing has been debated quite often, but never with a semirealistc Scenario in mind. Lets just go with the following quite random timeline: 2005/2006: several minor annoyances and trade disagreements happen between Europe and the USA. Bsuh, who is figures that he needs a populartiy boost seeks a spacegoat and starts a Nation wide Germany and France bashing campaign. Beeing bashed by Bush promtply leds to the reelection of Chancellor Schroeder. Spring 2006: The European Iranian talks come to a break, Iran stops its Nuclear programm as well as the support of terrorist groups in Israel, in exchange it gains a host of European arms. Amongst them is a shipment of 400 Leopard 2A4 tanks (in fact, Iran gets the Europane equipment the Europeans would have exchanged or upgraded enyway) In addition, the Iranians grant European companies first rights in developing Iranian Oil fields. Summer 2006 While the irani army is getting trained with their new equipment, a heavy shiite uprising breaks out in eastern Irak. The Shiites demand to be a part of Iran, the rebellion is crushed by the US military. 11.09.06 The US are hit by Terroists. The Gouverment claims Iran to be the culprit. The forces that just crushed the Shiite Rebellion in eastern Irak move up the border. Seeing a hole in the Iranian defense, an US general asks for permission to invade and gets it. While diplomatic conuselatins are still ongoing, the US troops overwhelm the tactically suprsied and not fully trained Irani border forces with minimal losses. The US imprisons the equally suprised European staff still teaching the Iranis. 18.09.06: While US forces are making further progress into Iran, the EU demands the freedom of its instruction staff. 19.09.06: Bush says "that the Europeans can kiss his behind" in an Interview. 20.09.06: German troops surround US bases in Germany. 21.09.06 Seeing America is distracted, Shiite rebels in Irak rise up again. All European powers cancel any overflight rights to the US that have been previously in place. A violent Mob lynches several Germans in a rural american willage, the local police stands by, of course this leads to another uproar in the EU. 22.09.06 With aid from local rebels, a British officer of Pakistani origin manages to escape his prison camp. He shoots a GI while doing so. 23.09.06 The American advance is stalled by logistal problems and constant partisan warfare. 24.09.06 Rumors inclince that the runaway British officer is activly particiapting in the Irani resistance. Pakistan cancel its cooperation with the US. 25.09.06 Under the cover of bad weather, the Iranis start are quick, dedicated and determined counter offensive against the US forces. The US line is breached. The way of the attack implies the Iranis had satellite info on the American positions, as well as human intelligence sources in the American army. In addition, the attack was carefully cordinated with partisan activites in the Ameriakn rear. The American gouverment blames the EU on the defeat and threatens consequences. Schroeder is cited saying "America and which army?" in a private circle. 26.09.05 A massive American airstrike takes out a lot of Irans ammunition producing facilites. Several EU cititzens are killed during the attack. Due to a misprinted order, a imprisoned European instructor is sent to Guantanamo because he shares the name of a terrorist. 27.09.06 The interment of a European instructor interred in Guantanamo is leaked to the BBC. Diplomatic relations between the EU countries and the USA are severed. China proclaims its neutrality in an eventual conflict. Fistfights break out before American Baracks in Germany. 28.09.06 Backed up by reeinforcements, the US manage to flank the Irani force. Hoping on the fact that the US have other problems to take care off, Iran offers peace talks. 29.09.06 A first ceasefire between Iran and the USA is concluded. Iran sends some "terrorists" to the US and labels them as the bad evil instigators. 30.09.06 The US refuses to return the still held instructors. The EU ulitmativly demand the return of the instructors. German troops move into 2 logistical US bases in Germany and arrest the American troops. 01.10.06 Led by a overly rash American Colonell, a Batallion of bradleys fires at approaching German troops. Beeing led by an equally rash German Oberst, the Leopard 2A6 MBTs fire back. The USA and Europe are at war. Now that we have a Scenario, what would be your predictions?
 
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Ehran    RE:Darth   9/22/2005 5:38:18 PM
---No Problem. The Bible and the Koran. Try reading them. Ancient text from his time period should be more than enough "proof". even by the standards we have come to expect from you this is utterly weak even pitiful. i can show you "ancient texts" which describe men whose face is in their stomach, mermaids, and various sea monsters. absolutely none of which is true other than by your laughable "standard". given the books of the new testament were written at least 40-50 years after jesus by people who never met him i find the detailed quotes etc to be suspect. i believe one of the books was written over a century after jesus died. again this makes detailed and voluminous quotes pretty suspect. the koran for crying out loud was written what 600 years nearly after jesus died and he's a minor player in that book anyhow. please tell us you aren't one of the cretins who thinks it's the literal truth written in those books.
 
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Shirrush    RE:Darth, Ehran.   9/22/2005 6:39:11 PM
Whoa there! There is a lot than can be argued for or against the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth or the existence of the Great Sea Serpent, but hijacking this thread toward a bitter theological confrontation rife with ad-hominem slurs or an acrimonious argument about the Tertiary paleontological evidence is certainly not going to make it any useful or more interesting. I also do not see this discussion progressing any further than an acknowledgement of the present reality, that is about as bad as the Euro-US relations can get for any foreseeable future (provided W. Europe does not fall to the Khilafa like an overripe fruit all of a sudden). Why don't we cap it and move on?
 
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jlb    RE:Shirrush   9/22/2005 7:07:02 PM
I don't care what your religious beliefs are. They're none of my business as long as you're not trying to use them as proof of something. Then it's open season. If you choose to quote the bible in an argument here, you'd better be prepared to answer for its accuracy. AFAIC, until proven otherwise, its worth ranks with Homer. You may believe otherwise, but we're not discussing beliefs here. In short, put up or shut up.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Darth - Ehran   9/22/2005 7:19:34 PM
>>>even by the standards we have come to expect from you this is utterly weak even pitiful.<<< ---First of all my standards, post and evidence are unquestionable. Second the "we" you refer to is the idiotological left I suspect. Why dont you try posting some original work on something people would be interested in discussing instead of riding my coatails playing the role of pest. Second, I was asked for evidence, I gave it. The fact that Jesus exist either as man or myth depends on your faith or lack there of. Which is why it says "walk by Faith and Not by sight" or to quote Jesus himself, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed." John 20:29. So it is up to the individual to decide which belief is correct. One need no other "proof" than the Bible and Faith or a lack of it. This is why the Bible concludes with, 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Do not go into a discussion of the Bible or religion unless you are prepared for it.
 
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mithradates    Darth's knowledge of history is shaky at best   9/22/2005 9:37:54 PM
Keep in mind folks. Darth is the very person who assumed that Chinese and Mongols are the same people. And that since Mongolia conquored China and then conqoured Russia 10 years later, then that means China conquored Russia!!!! I would not get into an argue of history with that dude.....a logic and common sense goes out the window.
 
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DarthAmerica    mithradates knowledge of history is shaky at best   9/22/2005 9:45:43 PM
You talk the talk. But the lack of any support for your claim shows you dont walk the walk.
 
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Danton74    RE:mithradates knowledge of history is shaky at best   9/22/2005 11:18:03 PM
"You talk the talk. But the lack of any support for your claim shows you dont walk the walk. " From were in the Bible does that come - Revelations? ;-)
 
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fall out    RE:mithradates knowledge of history is shaky at best   9/23/2005 12:05:08 AM
"You talk the talk. But the lack of any support for your claim shows you dont walk the walk" - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH WOW! Talk about hypocritical!! If your in a glass house dont throw stone matey!
 
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DarthAmerica    Danton   9/23/2005 2:49:49 AM
>>>"You talk the talk. But the lack of any support for your claim shows you dont walk the walk. " From were in the Bible does that come - Revelations? ;-)<<< ---Proverbs 24:28 Be not a witness against thy neighbour without cause; and deceive not with thy lips.
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Danton - Darth   9/23/2005 3:55:12 AM
I thought I knew my sriptures pretty good (a product of a very strict upbringing), but I would never have been able to correlate "talk the talk....." to a verse of scripture, hats off Darth ;)
 
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