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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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ret13f    RE:violent nuke   6/4/2005 10:24:24 PM
Well, FS, we finally agree on something!
 
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Bluewings    RE:violent nuke   6/6/2005 3:53:14 PM
It seems to me that violent nuke is trolling to say the least . Ex US Troopers in the FFL ? Yes , about 30 of them out of 8000 Men . Quote : "I know a French admiral who admited to me France would have been incapable of waging a Falkland like war the way the British did it." This is rubbish , you are lying . "The French army is not operational, period" lol ! You 're kidding are you ? "the Harrier has a radar and it's called BlueFox" Negative . It is called Blue Vixen . "France never had AWACs capability until the "black barron" flew over Paris with his little airplane and authorities could not catch the Prohibited Zone infractor" Rubbish . Another lie . "the carrier being too light, it plops around in the waves like corkscrew" So any Ship under 40.000 Tonnes "plops around" ?? You 're kidding are you ? "As for the Chinese or Russians, excuse me, but everyone is afraid of them, especialy the French. That is why they collaborate so much with them." LMAO ! You don 't get it do you ? It has NOTHING to do with "fear" . Violent nuke , your knowledge of France is atrocious . Do so home work ... Cheers .
 
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french stratege    RE:How rank France in world power? maybe the first in 60 years!   6/13/2005 1:24:18 PM
see my post: http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/30-49593.asp France elite want a world governement under French values and influence for long term and end of history. Howeber our elite don't still agree on way to proceed. Europe seems to be an incrasing failure as we has lost the control. But power is based on economy, military, technology and soft power and influence. When the French lead block (Germany, Russia, Spain, Italy ) will be build around us (as we master technology and influence) only Anglosaxon, French , Japanese, Chinese and Indian block wil remain. France has opportunity to be the mediator between blocks and as its ideology is social market state economy based on durable development (and also private property) , we have more chance on long term to attract foreign statist elites. We are seen a less dangerous than US for future of mankind and our initiatives on worldwide tribunal (weakening US international position and freedom of intervention) or Kyoto protocol (sustainable development) have worked well in Asia or Southern America.We are more able to attract moderate arabs on long term (see France cultural influence in Egypt). So US are trapped (themselves because of 11/9). They will failed in middle east then in the great confronation in Asia and France would emerge as ultimate mediator and having been right on long term. A world governement then will be established (I think before 2100) and it will be likely in Paris where OCDE or UNESCO are. We have to agregate military non US technology around us and develop softpower tools like durable environmental performance economy and cultural influence. But also to solve our internal problems but it will be done before 2012. France is currently attracting Chinese, Arabs, East Europeans cultural and statist elite which find good condition in France where they are paid and recognized by Governement. ALso we are in the forefront of environement science and energy management with many renown institures (CEA, ORSTOM, IFP ..) and it is why we need ITER international reactor and we almost get it (by refunding Japaneses). On military we already collaborate with Russia (we make future Borey Russian SSBN sonar suit with Russian, collaborate with them on hypersonic or Schwal next generation torpedoes ...) or Germany (French German Saint Louis institute ..), or Italy (Frems, Aster, space ...) or Spain (Scorpene) and even India (SU30) or Chinese (preparing).On soft power initiatives with Brazil have worked well. We provide the kernel and financing for a lot of initiatives. When US would have burned themselves with Arabs and Chinese, and on finance after thirld world countries retake anglosaxon property driven by French ideology, we will appear as the leading power (but stronguer than Vatican !) and mankind would be reading for a French driven world governement in Paris! UK needs France to preserve its position within US lead Alliance and will still play a major role until we win.Then UK (as Germany) would be closely associated in World French based goverment as our neighbor and daughter nation.After all English is also the international langage along French in world organisations. Some thinks here that EU was the tools for the current step but we nows now that we have to proceed by reshaping it and multilateral cooperation to build our block. Liberté, Egalité, fraternité! Honneur et Patrie! Valeur and discipline (army motto)! The great fight will be between US neocons and French and we will win as we are the future!
 
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Herc the Merc    RE:How rank France in world power? maybe the first in 60 years!   6/13/2005 1:37:14 PM
In 60 years the influence of Chinese & Indians will be very high. The USA will be #1 in 60 years because the power block will be -(1) USA & 50% of UK & Australia & 50% Japan support- large immigrant population will wield tremendous influence in India & China, 30% of Chinese & Indian economy will be controlled by immigrants or overseas nationals living in US & UK. FS France has always made the wrong colonies- the British controlled South Africa, USA, India- the French Algeria. The future power will have control in the growing third world which is developing ie China & India- the USA inherited that from UK. FRance has Algeria. For FRance to be #1 it must have large immigrant population from China & India not Algeria. (2) Will be China & India almost equal with INdia having weapons manufacturing technology- example Brahmos & PAKFA- INdia will buy Russian defense companies. (3) Europe France Germany, 50%UK 30% Russia. (4) Power block Russia-Ukraine etc.
 
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DarthAmerica    Maybe Not   6/13/2005 1:43:53 PM
FS, American influence in the middle east as well as in Asia is ever increasing. Any conflict in Asia between the US and whomever will lead to US victory if the status quo is maintained. The surrenders will be unconditional and not likely to require mediation. The USN controls the world oceans. How it is you see a world government in paris at any time, understand I do not...lol
 
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french stratege    RE:How rank France in world power? maybe the first in 60 years!   6/13/2005 1:44:34 PM
Today we let only Asian, South Amrerican, East Euroepan and Russian entering in France legally.Arabs are loosing their religion and tenths of thousands become atheist or Christian each year.Already we have a million Chinese and 400 000 Russians.Former Gorbatchev foreign ministry live in France for exemple and took French nationality.The foreign ministry of Georgia in Caucasus is a French diplomat for exemple.
 
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Grenadier Voltigeur    RE:How rank France in world power? maybe the first in 60 years!   6/13/2005 1:52:22 PM
Herc, if you think that chinese immigrants in the US will give any advantage to your power block, you are wrong. Chinese immigrants are patriots, no matter what. Nothing for them is more important than China, and they certainly intends to take the more advantage they can of your country to strenghten China. In 30 years, China will be the first economic and demographic power. US will have to accept it. FrancoGermany is already consolidating its links with China, while Americans are playing arrogant supercowboys with everybody. To FS, you are wrong with Russians. Russia obey to no one, but FrancoGermany is working to get from Russia a strong objective alliance. A sort of continental consortium to counter US and Chinese influence. And it will work.
 
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Herc the Merc    RE:How rank France in world power? maybe the first in 60 years!Grenadier Voltigeur    6/13/2005 2:07:08 PM
In 60 years soft power will be true power, soft power comes from the ability to influence events - which happens through networks & business, look at Indian population in USA- IBM, NASA, Microsoft, Merck, Dentists, Engineers- a very educated immigrant group in USA with tremendous network in India, 3rd richest man in the world (Steel magnate) lives in UK & is Indian origin- he also keeps his money in England- samething with the Chinese network, all the investments through Hong Kong & British banks. Now France does not have Indian immigrants- in 60 years that group will be 10 million in UK & USA & many more Chinese- this gives tremendous influence in INdia & China, granted it have some negative, but mostly positive. Also in 60 years China will not be #1, USA will still be #1 because a lot of rich Asians will move to USA, also population of USA will be double, plus Chinese economy is based on low cost manufacturing not high end products- example shoes- Nike makes profit in USA, the Chinese operation just gets small salary. Chinese growth rate cannot sustain forever, INdia is giving strong competition, and the Indians are moving to USA & UK & Australia, maybe you need to start some ecole's to teach French..
 
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french stratege    RE:How rank France in world power? maybe the first in 60 years!   6/13/2005 2:07:14 PM
Gifted Chinese immigrants in US come to make business and money, and take US technology before bringing it back to China. Gifted Chinese immigrants in France are artists, writers, thinkers, dissidents, pure science scientists and they will bring back our influence in China. Frankly, Chinese like more France than US!
 
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french stratege    RE:How rank France in world power? maybe the first in 60 years!Grenadier Voltigeur    6/13/2005 2:10:59 PM
"Now France does not have Indian immigrants": we have but only elite and few Indian for restaurants.But if you walk in Paris streets you will find a lot.Average Indian prefer to go UK. We have close link with India elite since we had 7 French town in India (Pondichery etc..) we gave up after Indian independance.The current Indian defense ministry is from one of this town .
 
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