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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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ret13f    RE:iran   5/13/2005 5:30:17 PM
i imagine the same as with egypt, punishment for some as yet to be named atrocity against france. i just can't wait to hear how he is going to do this one, he thought getting to egypt was hard (well, he didn't think it was hard)
 
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gixxxerking    RE:iran   5/13/2005 5:47:50 PM
Iran is actually easier than Egypt on paper. But in reality the Geography mitigates the technological advantages since the French Force is so small. France could strike Iran but definately not invade without US support.
 
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Bluewings    RE: Egypt   5/13/2005 6:53:53 PM
Gixxx , your interpretation of the possible battles between France and Egypt are flawed , to say the least and to stay polite . Important points to KEEP in mind : 1) We can strike at Egypt from as far away as a 1000nm using Air Refuelling . --> Egypt cannot do Jack against our Fleet if we sail 600/800nm away from theirs coats as they do NOT have tankers . UK bombed the Falklands after flying 14.000 miles (!) in 1892 using in-flight refuelling (longuest strike in history). 2) Surprise is NOT an issue at all . In fact we don 't really care . 3) Tempo is "almost" a non-issue . Just by using 10 tankers we could send waves of SEADs ~30 aircrafts~ with strong escort and CAPs ~20 aircratfs from CdG~ without any trouble at all . --> I wander what Egypt would DARE to scramble when seeing 50+ French Fighters coming ... 4) Logistics : WHAT logistics ??? The FN ~like any other good Navy~ can go at sea and sustain combat for a WHOLE month without the need to re-supply . How would Egypt look like after a WHOLE month of bombing ? Aircrafts flying from France, Chad or Djibouti already have all their needs at theirs airbases . We 'll talk about logistics Ground Ops later ... 5) ONLY FS is talking about using Chad or Djibouti to launch ground Ops . I don 't . 6) Spec Ops . I already said long ago how France would use Commandos to attrit/ distract/disturb/destroy Egypt will to fight . Ships would suddently sink in Harbors , Radar towers would go down , bridges would tumble down , coastal defenses and ammo dumps would blow off , etc ... ********************************************************* In GW1 , the Allies bombed the $hit out of Irak for 3 months . Why not doing the same ?... How would look Egyptian Med coast after that time ? You have to remember that Egypt has NOTHING but few old Romeos subs to worry the FN if we stay at more than 600-800nm . They CANNOT bring the fight to the French but stay like sitting ducks on their soil . I understand that the main problem for non-believers is the French capability to set up strong enough Logistics . But France does NOT need logistics UNTIL we begin the ground Operations . I believe that we can simply use the Med Sea for the ENTIRE campaign , and only use Chad and Djibouti for Air-strikes . When the Egyptian Sub threat is gone and when France decide to do so , supplies will simply sail peacefully on the Med Sea from home soil to wherever needed under escort . Most of the non-believers think that we are going to conduct a kind of "Blitzkrieg" where the supply lines would HAVE to try to keep up . No ! If it takes 1 , 2 or even 3 months to secure some good landing points on Egypt Med coast , so be it . Now , to go back on the Air-strikes themselves , Egypt would only have 2 choices : 1) Duck , sit tight , using ground air defenses and hope for the best . 2) Scramble against 50+ French Fighters equipped with all bells and whistles . What would they do ?... think about it ... If they choose option #1 , they get crippled without getting much in return . If they choose option #2 , they are going to loose their AF ~while scoring hits~ very quickly . 50+ French Fighters going after ~let say~ Alexandria ground air defenses/air bases are BEYOND their ability to handle . How long to do give them before they loose the ability to fight efficiently in the air ? Their AF gone and it 's almost game over . All this time , we did not commit any Force near Egypt yet ... 10 tankers over the Med in rotation , 2 in Chad and 2 in Djibouti are more than enough to conduct a very efficient Air Campaign . using a 1000tons of fuel everyday is more than we need ... Time is the essence . Egypt WILL fall , I have no doubts whatsoever . Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE: Egypt (typo error)   5/13/2005 6:55:21 PM
"UK bombed the Falklands after flying 14.000 miles (!) in 1982 using in-flight refuelling (longuest strike in history)." Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE: ASTER vs HARM   5/13/2005 7:53:52 PM
Here is THE answer . From : http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=87 "The design drivers of this system were to overcome the threat posed by ANTI-RADIATION MISSILES , including highly manoeuvring, stealthy, lately discriminated and unmasked targets. This capability relies on the short reaction time of the Firing Control Unit, the high speed of the Aster 15 weapon (Mach 3+) and their innovative control mode which provides the backbone of a true Hit-To-Kill performance." Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE: ASTER vs HARM   5/13/2005 7:56:26 PM
FS , we don 't even need to switch our Radars off ;-) Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    RE: Egypt   5/13/2005 8:00:03 PM
"Gixxx , your interpretation of the possible battles between France and Egypt are flawed , to say the least and to stay polite ." --BW Only by your flawed and admittedly ignorant logic. Also thats a nice BS for the Aster. But you arent going to hit 48 HARM. All it takes is 1 and thats it. So unless you plane on hitting 48 HARMS with 100% accuracy. Your screwed with these numbers.
 
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Bluewings    RE: ASTER vs HARM   5/13/2005 8:03:21 PM
Quote : "on November 13,1997 the interception of a surface-skimmer in an EXTREMLY dense ECM environment. The warhead had not been installed for this test to allow better visualization of the miss-distance and permit recovery of the target. So there was great surprise when the recovered C-22 was found to have two deep gashes caused by the Aster's fins! Thus 'hit-to-kill' turned out to be 'hit-to-kiss', to use the expression the Aerospatiale team lost no time in adopting. Had the warhead been installed, the target would have been totallv vanorized without the shadow of a doubt. On 30 December 1997. It involved the first qualification firing an Aster 30 against a real target. The Aster intercepted C-22 traveling at 900km/h at an altitude of about 36,500 ft at a range of 30 km. In the terminal stage of its flight Aster climbed to an altitude of 50,000 ft (!) before diving onto its prey at a speed 2880 kph, registering a miss-distance of less than 4m ! Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE: Gixxx   5/13/2005 8:06:07 PM
Quote : "Also thats a nice BS for the Aster" - Gixxx I let the other posters make their minds up ... You 're a 14 years old joke Gixxx ... Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    RE: ASTER vs HARM   5/13/2005 8:09:55 PM
Yippy for bluewings! In case you are unaware EVERYONE else here kows some HARMS will not make it. But we also know that because of the HARM speed, detection range and quantity fired at the Fleet there is a high probability of saturating the FN. And there is also the added benefit of reducing the number of Asters for intercepting Harpoons! So keep preaching your own doom it is quite enjoyable. I'll be quite while you parade the best technology France has to offer right to the bottom of the Med due to bad strategy and lack of logistic planning with regard to procurement.
 
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