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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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Herc the Merc    RE:Worlds best Restaurants ????   4/27/2005 12:29:48 PM
I have eaten at The French Laundry in Cali, its $250/person. It was rated as the best restaurant in the world by someone else. The "Fat Duck" hmmm next trip to Berkshire then, but they better not have Fish & Chips with malt vinegar or I send u the bill.
 
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Worcester    RE:Bluewings vs Worcester: gixx   4/27/2005 12:36:42 PM
Good post and thankyou.
 
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EW3    RE:Oh tut tut let the French have their day.....   4/27/2005 12:46:03 PM
Don't give the French too much credit for helping us in the Revolution. We couldn't pry Rochambeau out of his plush quarters in Newport RI till the very end. (there were very good restaurants in Newport) By then the war was mostly over, in fact it was the only battle the French ever fought in. Even if the Brits did not surrender at Yorktown, the end was coming. Had the French really wanted to be helpful they could have gotten involved much earlier.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Bluewings vs Worcester: gixx   4/27/2005 12:47:08 PM
No problem. We dont always agree with each other but facts are facts and you were right. I dont like to see someone bashed for telling the truth. I actually didnt know about Le Pen before you wrote about it. Insightful.
 
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Worcester    RE:gixx...where is FS?   4/27/2005 12:56:33 PM
All talk, no substance. The history of France is talking big but when they get called on it they end up biyatch slapped by the Germans or Brits...couldn't even get their National Assembly to approve troops for GW1 when it was UN approved, so the idea of them doing anything substantial anywhere is a joke. And now they have to share a currency and the borrowing, does anyone believe the Germans, Italians, Spanish etc. etc would carry the extra cost of letting the French exceed their debt limits to go to war? So much for their independence; their credit is controlled by the ECB in Frankfurt. Last week: pro-China, sell weapons! This week: anti-China, stop textiles! Pathetic sham of a half-baked has-been.
 
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Worcester    RE:Bluewings vs Worcester: gixx   4/27/2005 1:04:17 PM
Indeed, but I confess I'm coming round more to your way of thinking. And the whole Nazi thing in France is just too real. If you want another scary number, look at the Brandenburg State elections (capital: Berlin) a few months back: TWO Nazi parties (swastikas etc) got over 20% vote and, even more scary, took over 50% of the 20-35 year olds; unemployment in former east Germany now over 30% and more jobs going to Poland, Czech etc. I really dont think we need worry about EU per se; much more what happens when the wheels come off.
 
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verdunjp    RE:To Agamennon   4/27/2005 1:24:29 PM
You seem to forget Orleans, Ste-Foy, Ticonderoga, Williams Henry, Carillon, Yorktown... Saying that France is nothing is completely absurd. France is a great power and had clearly influenced the history of the world. But France is not alone in that category. Great-Britain, USA, Germany, Italy are also in that group. regards, Verdunjp
 
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ret13f    RE: worcester   4/27/2005 1:38:09 PM
when did nazi or anything referencing nazi become legal in germany?
 
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gixxxerking    Worcester   4/27/2005 1:59:05 PM
You know that US vs EU thread was really intended as a hypothetical but then again anything is possible. But as you say what is more likely is that the whole EU idea will crash and burn or exist only as a token entity with no real power. Imagine the USA with each State Governor acting out his/her own foreign policy, defense policy, tax policy, culture, language, religion, economy and no federal government to coordinate it all. Thats what the EU is today. There are too many chiefs and not enough indians. So the EU is more of a threat to itself in my opinion. BUt what can not be ignored is that a lot of critical technologies and money are in Europe and if mismanaged could have dire global consequenses that once again America will have to clean up. For example China and the way France is hell bent on a counter to the United States at all cost. European Military technology while not as capable as our own would give China several generations of advancement overnight. I still view China as more of a competitor rather than direct foe like the Soviets but that could change in an instant over Taiwan which we are obligated to defend by law. But when I read that France is actually endorsing China against Taiwan now that is crossing the line into enemy territory. And then there is the threat of inertia. Since, UNFORTUNATELY, there are still some who believe in the absolute fallacy of a United World Body skillfully and wisely making good choices, a.k.a. the U.N., we lose so much time trying to get consensus before acting. This is why I am such a fan of GWB Foriegn Policy. Not all of it but for the most part he is extremely brilliant for going into Afghanistan and Iraq "With or Without old Europe(France & Germany)". The benefits of that action are already starting to be seen IMO. And thent there is the crisis of Europe trying to find an identity. Every week we get some new old political ideology rising and falling to lead Europe into the future. Nazis this week. Ultra Liberal Socialist next week. Communist the next week. Who knows what will eventually take root in that part of the world. So many times in the past the world has suffered behind European leadership. And then there are the crooks. I dont think I have to elaborate on this topic. Will Europe just please for one century get its act together! Sorry had to vent.
 
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ShallowThinker1    RE:Oh tut tut let the French have their day.....   4/27/2005 2:12:06 PM
EW3, Even if the Brits did not surrender at Yorktown, the end was coming. Well, what the French did was to force the British to surrender rather than running away. They wanted to protect French culture and could not let the Brits act all Fr... - oops, never mind, something I didn't want to say almost slipped out.
 
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