Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
ret13f    RE:gf and other (Reply 1)   5/11/2005 11:52:43 PM
i spent the past few hours on the official french armed forces site (recommended reading). 50,000 combined with other NATO/EU forces + another 5K for normal rotations around their far flung possesions. and only a reserve force of 28K planned by 2015. 2 inf. brigades 2 mech bdes 2 armor bdes and their FAR brigades something of a LRS brigade an arty bde with MLRS and AD
 
Quote    Reply

trib    RE:gf and other (Reply 1)-ret13f   5/12/2005 5:49:28 AM
can you provide the link with the onfo you describe? thx
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege    RE:nichevo,    5/12/2005 10:23:36 AM
-I have never said we will fight in all town but only maybe Alexandria or Port Said as major town.One million of men with AK and RPG is worth in town but how can they fight in desert? By running without water? -On naval issue, yes we can loose one or two ship during initial phase of a Egypt preemptive strike when CdG near Corfu, but Egyp would lost a lot of its potent planes and antiship missiles so symplifying our next tasks. There isno way Egypt F16 wpuld ne badly hurt by our Rafale counter attack while tryning to reach our CdG group force.CdG will be priority in protectiojn in CdG group and I remmber we have 1300 missiles and 600 ready on launchers plus 3E2C and immediate detection of F16 leaving Egypt. We also assume we can take losses.
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege    Ex 98c step 1   5/12/2005 10:56:40 AM
You recognize that our strike force is reasonable but you doubt we will get E2C. In fact we will track E2C deploiement during months to locate their site and activity using: our Essain Elint satellites, our Helios reco satellites, our OTH radars and Elint planes.We will know where they land even on dispersed bases by tracking them real time. Remain E2C in flight: We will use with our Rafale F2 sparhead masking low level trajectory in desert in night to avoid premature detection (we have digitilized 3 D terrain database and sophisticated mission preparation tolls to find ways to avoid to be in direct sight of radar as long as possible). -Carbone offensive jammer will reduce then E2C range detection if needed, -Spectra and low RCS (as Rafale is AtoA 6 mica clean configuration) will reduce probaby E2C detection range to less than 100 miles (moreover we know perfectly E2C radar as we have software code licence to modify it ourselve) - then 20 to 30 rafale will be used in this configuration to shoot down escorting F16C (comming from Chad , Djibouti , Corsica or cdG), some will also also be used carrying also stealthy Scalp or Appache antirunway cruise missiles to crush grounded E2C. - 15 minutes later or half an hour after the main wave. When Egypt lost E2C they are out as we coordinate ourselves aerial battle with our E2C and E3F.I remember we have 89 Rafale and 275 M2000 in 2009. Day and hour of attack will be determined real time to maximize our chance to shoot E2C.
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings    RE:watching ...    5/12/2005 11:09:05 AM
I am still there , watching ... What said GoG (http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/30-46767.asp) is sound . I think some of us are a bit wrong to play with "numbers" only ie: 600+ missile ready on FN vs 100+ Egyptian Aircrafts , as that would stipulate than Egptian Forces can fight at their MAXIMIMU strengh , which I don 't believe they could . History has shown many times that the better Force , even low in numbers can outfight a more numerous lesser Force , professionally speaking . Combined Arms is the key , and I firmly believe that France can outfight Egypt at sea , in the Air and on land . Of course , France needs a good plan and I am still not sure if FS/BW 's plan is valid but I trust the French highs-up to come up with the goods . Gixxx is assuming that "his" Forces would fight like if they were let 's say US Forces , or UKs or whatever GOOD Forces . Which is FAR to be the case with Egypt if I may say ... Every War in the last 50 years between Arabs and West Forces went one way , the West way . Nothing is telling me that things would change ... Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

ret13f    RE:gf and other (Reply 1)-ret13f   5/12/2005 12:01:33 PM
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/air/ better if you google armee de l'air and translate if you don't speak french.
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    RE:watching ...    5/12/2005 1:54:08 PM
"Every War in the last 50 years between Arabs and West Forces went one way , the West way . Nothing is telling me that things would change" --BW Ummm what about the Suez Crisis? Didnt turn out quite the way you planned it. And the West(A.K.A. United States) wins as big as it does due to huge force multiplier advantages THAT NO OTHER NATION has. Arabs are good fighters and I am very qualified to make that statement. You could substitute and armed force into Saddams forces even French and the result vs US would have been the same. FS, you are grabbing at straws. Low altitude terrain hugging sneak attack with Rafales? YOu are aware that a low altitude flight profile will suck gas like crazy. Your planes cant make it from the distances you propose flying that low. I know I know, you remember me that you have tanker support. Well there goes your suprise attack and out comes the IAD welcoming party. Accept the reality of not being able to accomplish this mission because it is obvious. Also its funny how you ASSUME your rafales will blow through F-16s with ease. The F-16 is more than capable in competent hands of fighting off Rafales and Egypt has datalinked situational awareness. Also the F-16 has at least 5 to 1 and sometimes 8 or 10 to 1 advantage. Sorry dude. Thats gang rape for you. Also the pre-emptive CdG attack with 100+ ASMs is likely to get more than 2 ships. BTW what 2 ships can you afford to lose? Also BW made the comment that Egypt could not put 100 F-16 up at a time and that represents a maximum...lol! DO the French her get off by being wrong? 100 F-16 is less than HALF of TODAYs EAF F-16! By 2009 there will be even more as they retire F-4/M2000/Mig-21. "I think some of us are a bit wrong to play with "numbers" only ie: 600+ missile ready on FN vs 100+ Egyptian Aircrafts , as that would stipulate than Egptian Forces can fight at their MAXIMIMU strengh , which I don 't believe they could ." --BW How do you debate people who make no effort to post the truth? First you claim the HARM is only Mach 1 and Harpoon can only fly 60 miles. Geez. Do a little research before claiming superpower #2 status please. These post WERE productive now you guys, FS and BW, are making fools of yourselves.
 
Quote    Reply

ret13f    RE:watching ...    5/12/2005 2:08:49 PM
they do have a knack for ignoring posts that counter their plans. FS: please, please explain how you are going to support/supply the Chad force; and explain what is their objective; and explain why Libya and/or Sudan will not react or why Egypt won't retaliate against them (seems like a good time for them to settle that boundary dispute).
 
Quote    Reply

JIMF    RE:Suez Crisis 1956 - Egyptian Forces   5/12/2005 2:51:45 PM
My understanding is that Operation Musketeer was proceeding as planned from the military perspective. President Eisenhower told Prime Minister Eden to get out and that he (Eden) was going to start World War 3. The U.S. opposed our NATO allies in their Suez venture thus bringing it to a halt. The high point of the Egyptian Army was the canal crossing at the beginning of the 73 war. But it was an operation that they had repeatedly rehearsed and they were going up against relatively weak Israeli forces. They beat off several uncoordinated Israeli counterattacks over the succeeding days making good use of sagger (I think) anti-tank rockets. Once the war turned into mass armored engagements however the Israelis clobbered the Egyptians. Based on 73 and their performace in GW1 I don't believe they are up to Western standards.
 
Quote    Reply

trib    RE:gf and other (Reply 1)-ret13f   5/12/2005 3:01:29 PM
I did allready looked there, but can't find the estimation you talk about
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics