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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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Bluewings    RE:Bluewings -Please stop wasting my time -You are the student, I am Master   5/10/2005 5:09:04 PM
"You are the student, I am Master" -Gixxx You must be kidding , right ? "I have put forth and attack which if executed properly would end the conflict on Egyptian terms" -Gixxx I said that your attack does NOT work . "You have admitted that your do not have the skill to debate tactics and strategy with me" -Gixxx No . I said I wasn 't good General enough to lead France , which is quite different . ""no HARM will hit". I consider this an insult to my knowledge of modern warfare and weapons" -Gixxx That 's the truth , HARM does NOT work in heavy jamming environment . You could even shotdown one of your own F16 . Read again the specs and advices on how to use it . "You must also acknowledge that the FN/FAF most likely does not possess the resources to successfully operate east of Crete without suffering terrible losses" The only thing I acknowlede is that the Egyptian AF would suffer heavy losses because of the HUGE difference in : 1) Aircrafts 2) Awareness 3) Pilot skills "If you are not man enough to admit the truth" Do you know where you can stick YOUR truth ? and the best : "Then as a teacher I have not done enough on this subject to allow you to advance to the next subject with a clear conscience. I must fail you in this course. Also you must understand I am not quite Jesus like and I do have a small amount of vanity that must be appeased after an arguement" lol ! I think an old WW2 Radar could detect your Ego over the horizon mate ... Gixxx , you 're a tosser . Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Bluewings -Please stop wasting my time -You are the student, I am Master   5/10/2005 5:18:21 PM
As I said. Get lost punk. Dont waste my time until you learn a few things. http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/30-46542.asp go play!
 
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EW3    RE:Bluewings - HARMS   5/10/2005 5:24:37 PM
"That 's the truth , HARM does NOT work in heavy jamming environment." Can you please educate us on how a heavy jamming environment prevents HARMs from working?
 
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french stratege    RE:Answer These Questions FS: yes I do! 612 missiles on launchers!   5/10/2005 5:25:45 PM
I know perfectly how logistic is important, but weapons also. On missiles numbers: -15 Frigate with crotale NG: 8 misiles on ramp, 18 in reserve (automatic reloading): 26*15=390 -almost 30 ship with one or two SADRAL launcher (6 missiles per launcher). We can take as much ammunition we want, as MISTRAL is small and can be stored everywhere and handle by men: so reload limited only by common joint stock (army, navy,air force ) of 7000 missiles.In fact we could protect a fleet with thousand available inboard! We have at least 15 ships with 2 launcher (or even 3):so if we say 50 Launchers : it is 300 missiles on ramp plus hundred in reserve. Aster: 2 frigate Horizon in 2008 then 3 delivered in 2009. 32 aster on CDG 1 Frems deliver in 2008 an other in 2009: so 32 aster more lafayette modernized with ASTER: maybe 48 more in 2009 (according to Buewing): So minimum number=144 for task force , probable=192, up to 256 is everything available. So compliant with a 1382 missiles number. And 612 missiles on launchers READY TO BE FIRED!!!!!!! A single SADRAL laucher can deal with 6 missiles before reloading Aster are VLS Crotale can deal up to 8 missile before reloading: Crotale speed is 1.1 km/s and 13 km range: so 12 seconds to flight to the first two harpoons and 2 missiles guided.Then other harpoon are at 8 km so 7 second to shoot 2 harpoons, then 3 engagement at 6 km and shooting again 2 harpoons.Then 12 mistral in few second, then CIWS (3 guns:1 100 mm two 30 mm), then dagaie and jammer. A SINGLE FH70 Frigate class can handle more than 20 harpoon before reloading. We can handle with networking HUNDREDS of Harpoons!! - F16 can not fire Harpoon at 100 miles as range of their Harpoons is 60 miles only!And how to target ship at this distance. -Rafale would have intercept F16 200 miles before they come to ship!!!!! And so on for your MISTAKES. I'm RIGHT!
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Answer These Questions FS: yes I do! 612 missiles on launchers!   5/10/2005 5:31:47 PM
There is no mistake and Harpoon range is much greater than 60 miles. Not to mention the HARMs that will blind you first. Poke your eyes out then kick you in the gonads. The E-2C, TU-16 and UAVs give targeting data. Not to mention bearing only launch. Also as I have said many many time the F-16 Sweep outnumbers your CAP 3 to 1. You will be saturated if you come close. LOL so every sailor is a MANPADs operator...lol please FS.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Answer These Questions FS: yes I do! 612 missiles on launchers!   5/10/2005 5:32:53 PM
Only 2 Horizon FS. We already determined that. Now youare up to adding VLS's and another Horizon ship...lol. YOu forgot to bring the Death Star!
 
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Bluewings    RE:Bluewings - HARMS   5/10/2005 5:33:36 PM
Sure EW3 , here it is : "HARMs cannot be steered and under certain conditions may not guide on the target that they were originally fired. Also, they do not have the ability to discern friend from foe. Therefore, the precision detection capability of the launching platform and its human operator in the loop are key elements ensuring weapon effectiveness and the prevention of fratricide. The translation of what the launching aircraft sees to what the HARM sees is paramount. Several unique factors effect HARM employment. Most significant are the ambiguities in the radar frequency spectrum which cause friendly, enemy, and neutral radar emissions to appear similar. Ambiguities make accurate platform targeting and missile guidance difficult. These ambiguities will continue to worsen as the frequency spectrum becomes more dense and overcrowded. A limited amount of frequencies is suitable for radar operations, and as newer systems evolve, more emitters will overlap. In some instances, high target area activity in a dense emitter environment may cause pit task saturation and decrease targeting efficiency." Which is exactly the case in case of naval and A2A battle . As FS said : US navy doctrine NEVER emphasys Harm as a potent anti ship weapon . Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    HARMS FS   5/10/2005 5:35:36 PM
You cannot shoot without fire control and search radar. You will not even detect the HARM until 20km and then its too late to shut down radar. Lights out! Dont post as if only 20 harpoon are comming and thats it. You have over hundred ASM AND HARMS.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Bluewings - HARMS   5/10/2005 5:38:25 PM
Its not an ANTI-SHIP WEAPON. ANTI-RADIATION. And what radar it hits doesnt matter in the densely pack flammable confines of a ship. It doesnt even need a target before launch. Just fire in the direction of a threat on the RWR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KA-BOOOOOOM!!!
 
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french stratege    EW3 - HARMS   5/10/2005 5:38:46 PM
Moreover ship MOVEs! -If they shut down radar during a SINGLE second, HARM miss its target. -An HARM can be detected 10 to 20 km away or shoot down by a missile. -They are sensitive to alternate use of same frequencies and wave form by two radar coordinated and missile can not properly be guided. -A French fleet use more recent electronic than Iraqis! -In fact Egyptian have no recent Harm so it is even doubful they track LPI radar using spread spectrum techniques. And at the end a ship moves and is defended !.
 
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