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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:How rank France in world power? - dudley   5/10/2005 8:40:21 AM
personally I find the "French Military Prowess Revisited" response unnecessary and offensive. It's points are somewhat incorrect, and as such decidedly misrepresentative of what the French have done and achieved in military history. I still think Subodai achieved more than Napoleon though in tactical terms. ;)
 
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Godofgamblers    dudley --- dude   5/10/2005 9:18:03 AM
your hate speech does little to advance the discussion. on the garbage truck in the morning, such 'jokes' probably amuse your buddies, but here it will gain little respect. for all your bile about french fighting prowess, you have been bested by the French posters, as you show that you have to descend to aspersions for lack of any way of challenging them in terms of military arguments. perhaps gix/mubarek can find a place for you as his 'Minister of Information', but unfortunately i don't think you're anywhere at gix's level and he would proababy elect to shoot you across the Mediterranean on a Harpoon as ballast, as you provide him with little strategic importance. sorry, dude, i am rarely so negative about someone, but you really have no place here.
 
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Bluewings    RE:dudley --- dude   5/10/2005 10:45:52 AM
dudley , I pity you ... Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE:ground attack   5/10/2005 11:28:55 AM
Gixxx , for cry out loud , Egyptian HARMs will never hit anything for 2 reasons I already put forward but you seem to ignore them as it doesn 't please you . 1st reason : - Egyptian Fighters have no way to know what to fire at . 2nd reasons : - in heavy jamming environment , HARM does NOT work (see technical impossibility) Then you keep writing "2 AAW frigates" when we have no less than 8 ASTER equipped Ships . I never doubted of the numbers you put forward for Egypt , so please would you do the same for us . It is very nice of you to give us links with lovely pictures but it doesn 't solve your problem . I say that the French Fleet is perfectly safe . To put it simply : a) An old Romeo will not go through 18 Ships fully dedicated to Submarine warfare , especially in such small portion of water . b) a Fleet on the move is one of the hardest target to assign without PROPER Intels . c) Egyptian AF cannot do jack against French jamming and mutiple bands saturation but fire in the blind hoping to hit something . And last but not least , Egypt CANNOT do in-flight refuelling , so that leaves only F16 and TU16 for the job as all other aircrafts don 't have the legs for : 1) Look for the Fleet 2) fight their way through 3) escape quick and return to base . Then there is another little problem you haven 't even bother to answer : In the mean time , FAF will launch an Air interdiction mission from Chad ~700nm from CdG and less than 500nm from your launching Air Bases ~with 16 M2000-5s + 2 KC-135s for refuelling~ to cut you on your way back to base with whatever left of your striking Force . That 's 64 MICAs . They are going to catch you on your way back when you are close to "Bingo-Fuel" and low on ammo . The trap has been sprung ... Btw Gixxx , don 't underestimate ASTER : http://www.netmarine.net/armes/aster/indexe.htm So , unless you prove that you can actually hit something , we 'll go back on thread with the Beach landing . ********************************************* On a more personal note , I have been very honest in my "standing down" post and you using it against me is not only peculiar but pretty low attitude . I admitted that I wasn 't good enough to conduct French Operations but what I am doing now is demonstrating that TECHNOLOGICALLY speaking , your plan simply doesn 't work . Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    RE:ground attack   5/10/2005 11:55:55 AM
"2nd reasons : - in heavy jamming environment , HARM does NOT work (see technical impossibility)"--BW You are wrong. It works. Sorry dude facts are facts. Go in the weapons board or call the USAF to get answers. They worked very well in combat. BW you lose.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:ground attack   5/10/2005 12:02:22 PM
forgat something about the person who thinks HARM cant hit anything. http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/30-46335.asp http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/30-46481.asp BW I'm done debating with you until you admit the truth. From now on your just trolling to me. FS others and I can carry on.
 
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Bluewings    RE:ground attack   5/10/2005 12:35:51 PM
Alright , you didn 't prove anything and didn 't even bother to address technological facts . We move on to Beach landing . Cheers .
 
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ret13f    RE:Dud   5/10/2005 1:12:51 PM
you seem to be confused about this thread. GOG: the old 'in-flight missile repair technician'.
 
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ret13f    RE:ground attack   5/10/2005 1:15:11 PM
are we still going with the 3 prong attack or is it now limited to the Med?
 
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gixxxerking    Bluewings -Please stop wasting my time -You are the student, I am Master   5/10/2005 1:28:02 PM
I have proven that the FN/FAF is very vulnerable to the EN/EAF close to Egypt. I have put forth and attack which if executed properly would end the conflict on Egyptian terms. You have admitted that your do not have the skill to debate tactics and strategy with me. Now you retract your statement with comments like "no HARM will hit". I consider this an insult to my knowledge of modern warfare and weapons. Thus it is no longer posible for me to educate you futher for free about this scenario. In order to continue to discuss any amphibious operation. You must acknowledge that it is only hypothetically possible. You must also acknowledge that the FN/FAF most likely does not possess the resources to successfully operate east of Crete without suffering terrible losses. You must also acknowledge that if the above statements are correct that a landing would not even be possible. Only then can we move on to other topics. If you are not man enough to admit the truth. Then as a teacher I have not done enough on this subject to allow you to advance to the next subject with a clear conscience. I must fail you in this course. Also you must understand I am not quite Jesus like and I do have a small amount of vanity that must be appeased after an arguement. So when you are ready to show the courage to admit being wrong. I will move to a different subject. Otherwise I dont see how futher discussion between us can produce anything that would be of benefit to the other members of the forum. As you say Cheers P.S. Anybody joining the discussion late can refer to the following post to understand my response. ALso FS this post is not directed at you so you may continue on if you wish. IIRC FS the CdG is somewhere approximately 700 NM away from Egypt until you find a way to penetrate the defense. I will continue from there with you. BW reference post: http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/30-46542.asp
 
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