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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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french stratege    RE:Reality Check/FN in the Med   5/7/2005 4:37:58 PM
Sh@t I put bad coordinate but Al Minia 2000 km from Abeche and Ras Banas 1850 km.Ras Banas regain favor as it is closer than I thought from Abeche.And easier to take than Marsa Mathru.
 
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french stratege    Shooter   5/7/2005 4:44:10 PM
Rubis class don't exist anymore.Only Amethyste since former subs have been rebuild to this class.They are noisy as an Akula which is not bad. More over they can fight on battery and are not more noisy then than a quiet SSK.Indeed their propulsion is turboelectric and they can down their reactor which is then cooled by natural convection without pump then use their battery like a SSK.Some people specialized in subs forum can confirm you. ANd to have 66% patrolling in peace time is normal. Shooter you should find a troll forum or learn on military.
 
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Bluewings    RE:Shooter   5/7/2005 6:16:21 PM
Shooter is a troll without any knowledge . He 's only a France hater and will go up and down with lies and Bull@hit propaganda to make a useless and hopeless stance . In every post of his , lies and Bull@hit at every phrase . He knows jack@hit about military anyway . - CdG too smal . lol ! - Rafale too small . lol ! - F16 better range that Rafale . lol ! - France has no ASW . lol ! - French aircrafts cannot fly 1000nm because lack of oil . lol ! - French Subs noisy . lol ! - etc , etc ... I repeat again : Shooter , you 're a lying Dic@head . Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE:Question   5/7/2005 6:28:50 PM
Let 's go back on tracks . But before , I would like to know how to find old posts not anymore visible . Can someone enlight me please ? Thx in advance . Cheers .
 
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ret13f    RE:FS   5/7/2005 6:37:46 PM
Why is Nigeria going to let you do that?
 
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ex-98C    FS and Logistics   5/7/2005 6:41:10 PM
“Can also use road from Dakar to N'Djamena via Ougadougou and Niamey.” That that road exists I do not deny, that it is over 2000 miles long is also a fact. For comparisons sake that would be the equivalent of unloading in Baltimore or for the Europeans in the group Calais to Tbilisi. That’s a long way to haul supplies by road don’t you think? “Short answer on rail car : there is railway to Maidugari in Nigeria close to N'Djamena (oil supplies), and from Douala to Ngaoundéré (Cameroun).” Ahh but no rail from Dakar hmm? Both of those ports are another 2000 miles away from France adding at least 5 days at sea. The ports are not nearly as developed or likely as accommodating to the French. The rail lines end 100 miles and 370 miles from N’djamena respectively. Not to mention the question of how much rolling stock is going to be available for the French to use? I mean the French army can’t just land and say “Oh we are going to be using your railroad and all of your stock for a couple of months; we will let you know when you can start using it again.” “Road exist from chad to Egypt and I remember you that Leclerc Free French motorized column went from N'Dajamena to Tobruk via Kuffra in WW2.” That some tracks exist in the border region I do not doubt, though calling them roads might be a bit grandiose. However, they don’t show on any map I’ve seen making their quality very suspect. The closest target is Al Qasr which is almost 400 miles from the border, and almost 1000 miles from Faya-Largeau. I’m not saying that vehicles can’t cross those 1000 miles, but I am saying it would next to impossible to supply a multi-brigade force across it. PS. I’m using Faya-Largeau as the staging point because it is the closest major military airfield to the Egyptian border. It is a joint military-civilian airfield with the same length runway as the purely Civilian Abeche’.
 
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ex-98C    Ras Banas   5/7/2005 6:48:59 PM
I agree that it is easier to take, partially because it is farther away from anything valuable. I still don’t see how you are going to unload the majority of your armor since it is on civilian Ro-Ros and as far as I can tell Ras Banas port facilities are very limited. There is also the problem of proving cover for you amphibious force when the closest airfields are over a thousand miles away and your aircraft carrier with the best AAW/ASW escorts is tooling around the Med. PS thanks for the UN site, much better maps than what I was looking at.
 
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Ehran    RE:Logistic: learn Gxxx!   5/7/2005 6:55:43 PM
FS if 6 divisions use up 40000 tons of supplies per day that's just about 7000 tons per division per day. that's about 10x your estimate which heaves your statements about logistical adequacy rather into doubt. it gets worse if you consider that i don't think he actually had 6 mech divisions in the corps.
 
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Ehran    RE:Reality Check/FN in the Med   5/7/2005 7:06:36 PM
if you spread out your asw hunting party like that you are vanishingly unlikely to find anything at all. the med is pretty noisy after all and if i was the egyptians i would certainly put some fishing boats out there with noisemakers to make the situation worse. you would do better to concentrate your asw assets in the one place where you know the ssk's are going to wind up which is near the cdg.
 
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ex-98C    RE:Logistic: learn Gxxx!   5/7/2005 7:22:51 PM
True Ehran, it was 5 divisions (4 US, 1 UK) 1 Armored Cav Regt and 1 Aviation Bde. Though to be fair to Stratege US divisions are heavier than French ones.
 
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