Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Godofgamblers    morale and 'imponderables'   5/2/2005 9:33:42 PM
i don't think i am optimistic, bluewings, but realistic. there are 'imponderables' such as morale, discipline, training. on paper the arabs look great, as did iraq in GW1. in reality, we find out that their commanders already had civilian clothes in their backpacks, ready to desert at the first chance. what loyalty do egyptians have to the regime? none. when faced with a modern professional force, as the israelis have shown time and time again, they will bolt and run or as they say in quebecois french "prendre les jambes aux fesses". this is the crucial element that is missing in gixx's equipment lists. look at the arab materiel list for the 6-day war. impressive, yes. on paper only. trust me: a feinte in the red sea and a landing at alexandria would have them running around like chickens with their heads cut off. the egpytian generals would be banging on embassy doors begging for asylum. unfortunately, i cannot prove any of the above, even though we all know it to be true. the only proof i can give is historical precedent. i know many arabs who were in military action in lebanon when israel invaded; every one of their stories is the same: finding a place to hide!
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    GoG   5/2/2005 10:09:11 PM
With all due respect. And I do have a lot of respect for you. I find your opinion that the Egyptians would fold absurd. And when it comes to folding there are certain European nations, one in particular, that would have a lot in common with folding.
 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers    RE:GoG... priceless    5/2/2005 10:18:08 PM
and gixx, let me take this occasion to tell you that i have a lot of respect for you, even if we disagree on things like nukes and torture. in military matters, i take my hat off to you; however, in terms of third world basket case countries, i happen to come from one, so i have seniority over you on this subject:) ... and believe me, i'd love to see the egyptian pilot's face when he's given his orders to make a strafing run on the CdG !!! priceless... ! odds are he would "get lost" or experience "mechanical problems" looong before getting to the target.
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    RE:GoG... priceless    5/2/2005 10:24:06 PM
lol...well I have to take your word for it then! I have certainly seen my share of cowards! Although I would likt to add I have seen them from all races, colors and creeds.
 
Quote    Reply

VelocityVector    RE:GoG   5/2/2005 10:26:17 PM
In response to: "...there are certain European nations, one in particular, that would have a lot in common with folding." Do the denizens plant trees in the capitol of that certain country so the occupying troops from a certain neighboring country can march in the shade? ;>] My money would be on the Egyptian military in this case - the Egyptians would be fighting on their own soil against what they would perceive as imperialists trying to colonize them or at least dictate their institutions a la Suez affair. Morale would likely by on their side, not that America would allow France to succeed. v^2
 
Quote    Reply

ex-98C    RE:French Sortie Rate over Egypt   5/2/2005 10:27:10 PM
French Sortie Rate: So you think you can get 1000 sorties in the first thirty hours? Mmm a bit iffy if you ask me. According to Jane’s 26 Transalls were equipped with a refueling boom, but according to the inventory only 20 are in service with a note that 9 are capable of acting as tankers. The data is a bit mixed, but I’ll grant you a max capacity of refueling 180 aircraft, but do you really think you are going to get refueling flight in, while maintaining the aircraft? I seem to remember a recent article in which the French Transport aircraft readiness was about 50%. Also your breakdown of the aircraft is a bit curious I mean the French don’t have 40 -5s, attacking with the full force would be lucky to net 30 (35 currently in service). 80 is also the entire 2000D fleet, so you have pretty much 100% of you first line strike aircraft flying continuous missions with no maintenance down time, and as for the more pilots than planes? Won’t most of those be sucked off to flight the planes being pulled out of storage? Your ability to take out the Egyptians E2s is not a certainly either. Even with 1000 sorties, how many are air to ground? How many had to turn back because of malfunctions? 1000 sorties are not enough to cripple the Egyptian ability to fight back. Oh and Stratege? The Range the aircraft have to fly is on the order of 2500+ miles, so yeah most of them are going to need to be refueled. Also you don’t have an infinite supply of PGMs.
 
Quote    Reply

wjr    RE:morale and 'imponderables'   5/2/2005 10:28:44 PM
All, Egyptians are not Arabs but of all of the Middle Eastern armies they have had the best record recently against the Israelis. The little “picket fence” air defense approach that they took with the last dustup caused serious concern for the Israeli command -- aside from the fact that the IDF got caught sleeping in the early stages. Generally, though, you really need to subtract one from the die roll when it comes to determining outcome for them. None-the-less it sure seems to me that FS is being much too aggressive. One French mistake (forget any Egyptian actions) at the amphib stage means that an elderly grandmother could undo the whole plan. Both logistics deficiency and very thin naval resources really make this one hard. It might work if the Egyptians pull a complete Homer Simpson but I don’t think that you can or should assume that. Now, if you could talk the Brits into supporting you then this would be much more realistic. Adding the RN to the mix means that the SSK problem is much diminished (as ASW resources become much richer) and both sea lift and air lift become much, much more realistic. Furthermore, with one medium and three light carriers you now have the sortie numbers adding up in your favor. On the other hand, if Israel does come in on the Egyptian side then, even with the U.K., you lose. This is not so much a matter of numbers but a matter of being able to deliver any sort of numbers at a (relatively) great distance against a very aggressive, very good force that outnumbers the most that you can deliver at any one time. Best, wjr
 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers    V2   5/2/2005 10:37:51 PM
"Do the denizens plant trees in the capitol of that certain country so the occupying troops from a certain neighboring country can march in the shade? ;>]" com'on, that's a low blow, buddy! as an indonesian, i assume that the egyptian troops are basically on par with our own. i wonder what sort of Djini they would have to conjure up to embolden them to take on a western power. france has a modern, professional military with state of the art equipment; the egyptian army is used mainly for internal repression; it has a hodge podge collection of equipment in various states of disrepair. most of its budget goes to the army (namely, for internal repression). i can't see them holding up, no matter what is on paper.
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    V^2   5/2/2005 10:38:33 PM
"Do the denizens plant trees in the capitol of that certain country so the occupying troops from a certain neighboring country can march in the shade? ;>]" --V^2 Did those same denziens produce the same army that got massacred in South East Asia by pesants?
 
Quote    Reply

wjr    RE:V^2   5/2/2005 10:43:35 PM
GoG, How do you rate the Indonesian military versus the Philippine military? Best, wjr
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics