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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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Godofgamblers       11/5/2009 9:42:48 PM
bump!
 
wonder if anyone has changed their view over time on this thread.... after all this was written 4 years ago. interesting trivia, it seems that this was one of the first Rafale threads on SP!
 
 
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Godofgamblers       11/6/2009 2:00:38 AM
SYSOPS should archive classic threads like this one..... classic. i just read 10 pages of it and it's hilarious! priceless!
 
many funny predictions for 2009 and 2010 too.... classic.
 
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Carlos500       11/12/2009 7:58:38 PM
Well coming from the UK FS has got one thing right they came out of the recession quicker than us (UK) and I believe a lot of what he has to say is true. They have there own nuke tec which we don't have they have, an economy based on other thing rather than debt (the UK) and they don't have the CHAV culture (Dads being beaten to death for defending there children) that we have over here. Overall I think FS is trying to form a balanced view of the current status of the world.
 
Look at this board it's amazingly bias toward US/Brit/Western views. You should all try an open your eyes accept different cultures and view, disagree but only with true information and facts rather than my dicks bigger than your dick when you have other opinions. While I accept the UK still has some things going for it, Saudi Arabia is less corrupt with a more popular government. France, Germany, and Russia are better financially and the whole world is better morally.
 
Capitalism is beginning to suck big time. I vote for a democratically selected socialist government when I say "socialist govenment" I mean within the constitution there would be rules where as rather than the rich get richer and the poor get poorer there would be limits, people would be rewarded for being top of there class however there wouldn't be rewarded for doing nothing (like the current b(w)ankers of the day. For instance in the UK the chief ex of the company gets 700 time more than the Joe Bloggs on the work floor but the chief ex do rather little over here it may be different in other parts of the world. Hard work would be a positive thing but sloth wouldn't . For all you people in America that doesn't mean communism (I hope you understand the different between communism and socialism) Look at the American uproar to free health for all 'disgusting' we can only hope that one day America will join us in a civilised society.
 
Please America join us...
 
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Hamilcar    Until 2012.   11/13/2009 2:21:09 AM




Well coming from the UK FS has got one thing right they came out of the recession quicker than us (UK) and I believe a lot of what he has to say is true. They have there own nuke tec which we don't have they have, an economy based on other thing rather than debt (the UK) and they don't have the CHAV culture (Dads being beaten to death for defending there children) that we have over here. Overall I think FS is trying to form a balanced view of the current status of the world.


 

Look at this board it's amazingly bias toward US/Brit/Western views. You should all try an open your eyes accept different cultures and view, disagree but only with true information and facts rather than my dicks bigger than your dick when you have other opinions. While I accept the UK still has some things going for it, Saudi Arabia is less corrupt with a more popular government. France, Germany, and Russia are better financially and the whole world is better morally.

 

Capitalism is beginning to suck big time. I vote for a democratically selected socialist government when I say "socialist govenment" I mean within the constitution there would be rules where as rather than the rich get richer and the poor get poorer there would be limits, people would be rewarded for being top of there class however there wouldn't be rewarded for doing nothing (like the current b(w)ankers of the day. For instance in the UK the chief ex of the company gets 700 time more than the Joe Bloggs on the work floor but the chief ex do rather little over here it may be different in other parts of the world. Hard work would be a positive thing but sloth wouldn't . For all you people in America that doesn't mean communism (I hope you understand the different between communism and socialism) Look at the American uproar to free health for all 'disgusting' we can only hope that one day America will join us in a civilised society.



 

Please America join us...


Then we take our country BACK.
 
 
 
 
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Godofgamblers       11/13/2009 2:49:51 AM

actually though H i am starting to think that we are back in Europe 1939 when democracy was in full decline. especially in france where the IIIrd republic was beseiged by scandal after scandal. the shadow of communism loomed over europe. we both know that communism as a system does not work, mostly because marx wrote a critique of capitalism yet nowhere did he ever lay out a blueprint for his ideal state... his prose always faded off into vague utopian generalities when it came to actually saying for the record how a communist state would function.

however, whatever you may think of them, the reds of that time were committed.... To them, communism was a religion. in the meantime, who would die for the corrupt and spineless democracies of the west? they inspried no one. everyone was just trying to milk the system for all it was worth. the french collapsed before hitler, many collaborating, thinking that Germany's way was the only alternative to a communist Europe.

now change the word communist to islamicist in the above and we basically have the same situation now in 2009. creating an islamic state is a pipedream at best; at worst it is a nightmare that makes Stalinism pale before it. But people believe in it, in a way that no one believes in democracy and capitalism. the west fended off nihilism by winning WW2 against all odds. the immense industrial might of the US allowed for a surprise turnaround on the battlefied and re-engergized the West.

but America is looking quite ragged right now. Europe is old and tired. the question is, who is going to be the force to re-ignite or reform capitalism and democracy? what we need is a new ideology, a new player who can instill new lifeblood into these notions.

a democracy where the will of the people matters.... where it is more than mere marketing and demographics and business interests. an accountable goverment. freedom of speech without being squeezed by the left (political correctness) and from the right (patriotism).

i dont' know how this will happen... but the world needs it right now. the world needs some fresh ideas....

 

 

 

 
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Hamilcar    GoG reply.   11/14/2009 1:56:43 AM
We have voices crying in the wilderness who are out there, GoG. They get it and the ground pressure builds.


Forbid that we have a repeat of 9-11, but one more and its all over but the treason trials and the dying. 
 
This country has had it. http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emclock.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
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Godofgamblers       11/19/2009 9:36:08 PM

I love how People here resort to plain stupid "old Europe" remarks, while constantly denying realily :)  Rumsfeld was sacked, just to let you know :)  

Oh Man, Europe is a solid rock when it comes to "cultural invasion" , fortified by some thousand years of repelling outside interference :)   Think historically when you speak about historic topics :)   No nation nor "religion" on Earth is capable of taking Europe right now, you can turn the picture as long as you want ...   the German Atlantic Wall is a simply joke compared to the resistance the current European Union could field against an agressor threatening the integrety of Europe, and anyone comparing this to "genocide at the Balkans" is a clown  :)  And before comments like this come I can tell it you know Im right  you fool :)


 

Islam has just been turned its back upon the EU, despite direct interference of the Bush administration and the Obama administration to admit Turkey to join the EU.  Without Turkey agreeying, it was a simply bluff anyway to get Turkey on line, but nowadays the German Government is simply against it, and a Turkish membership will never be accepted with a German conservative Government in place, let alone a Greek or Netherland rightwing government.  Serbia will probably join though, making the EU again more solid against any "eastern" Opponent ...  even I found it suprising, but Serbia has just officially asked for integration into the European Union :)


Even the Swiss !!  which may even be know in the United States for their isolationalism have just admitted they have to obey and integrate into the European Union because they were excluded from all important European decisions while beeing the centre of the EU ... Ill leave it to you to guess the importance and power of a Union that can force the Swiss to adopt to things Nazi Germany didnt even dare to ask from the Swiss ... 


 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Serbia_to_the_European_Union
">link
 




 





Who are you replying to, NGI?
 
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Godofgamblers    FS BW gixx   11/19/2009 9:54:51 PM
Now that a few years have passed, I wonder if BW, FS or gixx have changed their minds at all regarding the France vs Egypt scenario in this thread.
 
I for one can't see France occupying Egypt, not after seeing how the Afghan and Iraq campaigns have played out. I maintain that France could bomb Egypt, humiliate Egypt, destroy its infrastructure (while sustaining some losses herself) but not do anything other than a few light amphibious landings with Marines or SF in terms of 'invasion'.
 
Both sides, IMO, overstated the potential of the French and Egyptians. I just don't see that the French have the materiel to sustain and supply an invading force. And i think gixx overstates the fighting will and ability of the Egyptians; in reality, we know that any Egyptian pilot being sent to run a sortie against the CdG would probably "get lost".... any unit sent to attack the French Marines would probably 'never find them' either.... The Egyptians' strength would not be in the American tech it has but in the subsequent guerilla war....
 
Anyway, that's how my view has evolved since the beginning of this thread.
 
 
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Godofgamblers       11/19/2009 10:12:53 PM
hehe no worries, i have fond memories of Moskovskaya Vodka!
 
btw.... have you ever tried drinking it after putting it in the freezer for about 30m to 1hr?
 
 
 
 
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Godofgamblers       11/19/2009 10:39:34 PM
Give it a try.... you'll find it becomes thickish, like mercury.... much better tasting too!
 
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