Ranking the Best Special Forces from NON-NATO Countries

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Subject: Ranking the Best Special Forces from NON-NATO Countries
ChaosEnforcer 1/31/2005 2:38:45 AM

We all know about the Great Special Forces from NATO based countries such as USA's Navy Seals and Delta Forces, British SAS, German GSG-9, French GIGN, Israeli Flotilla 13 Naval Commandos etc. But What about Special Forces from Non-NATO countries. Specifically these countries: China India Indonesia Brazil Pakistan Russia Nigeria Japan Philippines Vietnam Egypt Turkey Iran Thailand South Korea Ukraine Burma South Africa Colombia Argentina Saudi Arabia Malaysia Taiwan Singapore Australia What I want to know is, where would you rank each country based on its Special Forces. My Ranking would be something like this: Russia Australia Turkey Pakistan Japan South Korea Singapore India Thailand China Taiwan Ukraine Egypt Colombia Argentina Malaysia Iran South Africa Saudi Arabia Vietnam Burma Philippines Indonesia Brazil Nigeria What do you guys think?

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dba 8/7/2007 4:04:55 PM

Based on the "evidence" you present IMHO I think you agree wholeheartedly with 5thGuards. Russia, Australia then daylight.

"I just googled and found

out this: 'During the 2005-06 financial year the Australian Army had

an average strength of 25,241 permanent Personnel and 15,579

reservists.'"

Please enlighten us as to the relevance of this information.
It's relevant because in # of Special ops troops available N. Korea is far higher than aussies. Same goes with S. Korea. # of troops isn't the only criteria to consider in 'ranking' special ops but it has to be taken into consideration right? Hence you can't dismiss special ops of N. and S. Korea so easily.

You have not explained the relevance of this information. Australian soldiers are far better educated, have far better nutrition and have a far better training tradition available to them than "soldiers" of the DPRK. They are all professional volunteers. Almost all Australian infantry have potential for special operations training. The patrolling ability of most Australian "grunts" is as good as that of many special forces around the world.

"But you have to agree NK special op & support guys are extremely well trained/motivated."

How

is the lack of initiative amongst a submarine crew evidence that the

DPRK's spec ops are well trained ot motivated? If that crew was well

trained or motivated they would have blended into the ROK countryside

and put themselves into a position to cause havoc when the opportunity

arises, not laid down and died like a bunch of girls.
One may say the sub crews died like a bunch of girls. But you obviously don't know the situation on the ground. The special ops guys on the sub were armed/trained to survive and try to make it back to the N. Korea. But the sub crew members WERE NOT. You cannot expect a regular North Korean to be dropped off in the middle of S. Korea and expect to not get noticed. N. Koreans don't know how to use the bus system, cabs, make calls, etc etc in S. Korea. N. Koreans on the sub knews the sub crew didn't have a chance of not getting caught. Even 1 getting caught and eventually giving up secrets was a risk they didn't want to take. The sub crew had to die to help secrets secret OR had to pay price for their failure. I brought the minisub crew story just to illustrate how fanatical/loyal the N. Korea special ops AND their support guys are. You are in a line of 17 people and each is being shot one by one and you will be next... Stupid? Tragic? But that takes guts, in a weird sense, but it is.

Were the sub crews not "support guys", as you called them? They obviously lack the right training to deal with the kind of contingencies their role inevitably faces. I doubt very much the average NORK sub crewman has any secrets to tell.

"...a brawl breaks out where

trainees and prisoners fight hand-to-hand (or using what ever one can

find such as brick etc) until all of the prisoners are DEAD. Purpose

of this training is to get the spies familiar with blood/gore and

toughen them up."

That

is sick. That is not spec ops training. That is the training of bullies

and cowards reminiscent of Hitler's Brownshirts or the actions of the

Imperial Japanese Army of WWII in Asia which did nothing positive for

Japan's reputation. Beating helpless civilians until they are dead is

not a characteristic of a true spec ops operator. Beating helpless

civilians until they are dead does not toughen up anybody - it just

makes them a murderer.
Yeah, that wasn't a good example but I was just trying to show the N. Korea special ops guys go through ruthelss/inhumane training. And in the movie, the political prisoners, young military/middle age males don't simply get beaten up. The prisoners were selected because t

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5thGuards 8/7/2007 6:46:58 PM

I already said that the post was not conservative , and you have my apologies on that behalf , but I still belive that aussie are the second best , maybe South Korea could potentialy rival them , but North Korea does not

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dba South Korea 8/7/2007 7:01:18 PM

Didn't mean to get apology or anything like that. Just wanted to let everyone get a chance to have correct info. But yeah, N. Korea couldn't be near aussies.

My vote is with S. Korea. :)

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stingray1003 8/8/2007 6:39:57 AM

Special forces aren't about body counts and cold blooded killing machines.

I think I would trust the Australian SAS to perform a mission, do the hearts and minds thing, save everyone, mimal to no casualties, out tactic the opposition and come out smelling like unseen roses.

Russians? No. US? No. South Korea? No. North Korea? You have to be kidding.

We don't want to just defeat our enemies, we want to change their minds so we can have a profitable friendship and become great trading partners and become good friends. Like Veitnam, like we are trying with Indonesia, like Germany, like moving through France, etc. What you want is your enemy or country your fighting in to errect monuments to how wonderful you were. You don't want people dead, you want people to join your cause. You don't want to inflame every situation..

Sure there is a time for the dirty work, but its rare and special circumstances. Sure sometimes the SAS can raise hell, but there is a time and a place, not all the time everywhere.

I think its the high value Australians in the ADF put on life, and the capability to fight the moral war that makes them so formidable. We are so done with putting endless bodies through the war machine.

The SAS makes way for the army, which does the whole thing again, which makes way for the police force, which does the whole thing again, which makes way for the diplomats and the trade deals and the good times.

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dba 8/8/2007 1:24:35 PM

Special forces aren't about body counts and cold blooded killing machines.

I think I would trust the Australian SAS to perform a mission, do the hearts and minds thing, save everyone, mimal to no casualties, out tactic the opposition and come out smelling like unseen roses.

Russians? No. US? No. South Korea? No. North Korea? You have to be kidding.

Sure there is a time for the dirty work, but its rare and special circumstances. Sure sometimes the SAS can raise hell, but there is a time and a place, not all the time everywhere.

So you think special ops should be doing stuff like drink tea with locals and help reconstruct infrastructure?
In that case, S. Korea is doing well in Iraq.

youtube . com / watch?v=-3kK0TpaIOw

I thought this thread was about ranking special ops, not Civilian Affairs Units...

sorry.
IMHO

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AdvanceAustralia 8/8/2007 3:46:27 PM

Special forces cannot be directly ranked against each other. The various special forces units around the world invariably have different roles allocated to them by their respective governments. Thus they cannot be compared directly.

The comparison can only be in terms of "how well does a special forces unit fulfill the specific roles allocated by its parent government?"

This is why you will see Australians (and many of our allies) refrain from actually listing SF rankings while speaking very highly of our SAS.

In the case of the Australian SASR, the main roles are strategic, and in-theatre, long range reconaissance and counter terrorism. The SASR's capability in recon explains why you will see Australians defend the "ranking" of the SASR against any other SF. The SASR does what is asked of it to an extraordinarily high standard and with a consistently high success rate. They might not dig tunnels under someone else's border and come up cutting throats but they will give our government a very good idea of what is happening far, far behind enemy lines without the enemy knowing they are there.

The SASR is not considered a tactical unit but a strategic asset, in the same vein as the Collins submarines or the F111s.

If you want to compare SF units, reflect on what they are tasked to do and how well they do it. Forget about the others - they are "doing their own thing".

Cheers.

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stingray1003 8/8/2007 4:15:49 PM

No, I don't think they are tea drinkers.

But there is a lot more to special ops than barefisted prison fights.

Its one of the reasons why I would rank a few countries above the Russians. The Russian IMHO would be useful in some sort of high intensity kill zone. But why not just use regular troops instead.

But for an operation of gathering intel, recovering prisoners, recovering hostages, sabotage, securing installations for other forces etc, I would perfer other special ops teams. The thing about the Australian SAS is that the are involved in so many missions throughout the world, rarely/non in recent memory get casualties, yet service personel of other countries speak very highly of them.

They perform roles of both the SBS and SAS in the UK. As a small country all its forces need to be highly flexable, unlike larger nations. With out aircover, sometimes many 1000km's from support.

But this is a very subjective argument as a whole.

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5thGuards 8/8/2007 4:26:29 PM

Best post of the topic , cheers.

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pakiwarri maroon berets 2/23/2008 4:36:04 PM

The Maroon Berets are an elite armed force that was created by officers from the Turkish Army. The unit was created to eliminate any inside or outside attacks to the country. An MB officer can survive in any type of terrain and climate, as they are highly trained, educated and special soldiers. Today the force is under the order of Special Forces (old Special Warfare Unit). They also work along with Attack Search & Rescue Teams (ASR) and Underwater Attack Teams (UWA) (Marine Search Teams). 5 year turkey 1. in nato special forces later stopped it and tukey teach 40 national army and mb The Trust Shot (in Turkish "G&&63;ven At&&05;&&51;&&05;") is a part of the MB's training program. It is exercised on the last month of the training and is to ensure the members of the group that they could trust each other with their lives. The Trust Shot consists of two members of a squad standing next to paper target boards, while another member fires on the targets with a handgun while walking towards them from 15 meters (49.2126 ft) away. The shooter fires one magazine on each target before handing the weapon to the 2nd shooter behind him. After which the second shooter also fires two magazines on the targets. After the exercise is complete, the shooter switch place and the shot is employed again. The second portion of the exercise is almost the same with the exception of being done with a rifle and the shooter starts walking towards the target from 30 meters (98.4252 ft) away. During the exercise the men standing next to the targets are not allowed to move or wear body armor.

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Beholder2 2/25/2008 1:38:31 PM

Israel relies too much on new blood i.e immigrant Jews for keeping their SF good, something doesnt seem right there though the results seem good enough for now... just a gut feeling here.

It's not true.While immigrant can enter some SF,the list not include most capable.
For this disscursion it will be General Staff commando and Flotilia 13.Flotilia 13 minimum 5 years in country and you must be something very promising(heard of only one such case) :),GF commando you cant get if you not born in Israel.
There is one more SF in the same liegue,Shaldag,dont know any immigrant there,through i didnt ask :).
Ofcourse there are other SF that allow immigrants,but lower level and all have some minimum requirements.

You can safely say that SF predominantly native born israelies.:)
.

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