Well, when a member of an alliance decides to call it quits (boycott) over nukes, and the subsequent security treaty is arranged so that mutual defence support is not forthcoming (ie, the Yank nuke umbrella won't shield the Kiwis), then I'd say that the agreement is dead in the water! Obviously Oz/USA still exists.

I apologize about including Australia in Nato, I intended to only list them in Seato, not Nato as well. Thanks Can anyone give specific/detailed info on these groups and not just top ten lists? I would like to find some good books and/or web pages about this topic. Rayott

Indonesian Kopassus have mainly been involved in violent mistreatment of civilians in Timor, Aceh, West papua and other opressed regions of current and former Indonesia, they trained the East Timor Militia and armed them prior to the 1999 conflict, and some were found to be fighting against Australian soldiers. Now in an effort to fight terrorism some of those same Aussie soldiers in the SAS are training some of those Koppasus guys, which on occasions has raised hell down here. As for there real capabilities aside from rape and village burning then I'm not too sure, but i would think that in counter-terror they would be up to pretty good scrath after learning from the SASR.

Compared to the nation above and below, i.e. Russia and China, I think you lack (hence *) human assets and resources they own on ground in their respective regions. I mean it is much easier for China to infiltrate NOC forces among the highly successful Chinese communities in SE Asia, or for Russia to do the same in many Eastern European enclaves in West. They can truly run Black and Gray Ops. Or for that matter even Pakistan can tap into some fundamentalist orgs. However Aus. will have to rely on groundwork provided by US or UK for such Ops. Malaya, Vietnam, GW1 and GW2, Afghanistan and Timor were all pretty much officially sanctioned work that used allied assets and more importantly liberally distributed dollars. Also I dont think Aussies really want or should to get their hands dirty... Now a days there things are pretty tame. But imagaine how much trouble a small fraction of Chinese Communists caused in Malaya without Mao's approval, or what a single Soviet could have pulled off with a minaturized suitcase nuke in, say, West Germany (that by the way was also a function of US S.F).

Well Practice makes perfect-> has to be Russia, India, Israel & China- in fact the very elite of these countries would beat even NATO special forces- except for disarming nukes, Bio/Chem response and sub & quiet Heli drops. There is a whole lot in between and these folks do it all the time.

While I appreciate the vote of confidence... I have to disagree. India is very tradition bound and we dont like our men running off wearing dirty dresses and speaking gobeldygook, and actually prefer our best troops to be knights in shining armor. Special work is handed over to ad hoc units. You can see that our Guards are ranked higher than Paras etc. Hrnce we are not as great as you might expect with almost continuous counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism exp. Russia and China are to a large extent totalitarian regimes and there SF dont have much chance to fine tune their work because they usually get their way. To a former Russian I would point out the case of former KGB (Domes. Div) being unable to put up covert surveillence simply because of arrogance, or Septnaz carrying only semi-autos in Afgh. b/c they were superb shots etc. ...things that work well enough in friendly territory but not in hostile environ. Plus problem of who is to be Special: the Party giant peasant (who can do good a job, but not in Paris), or the snazzy operative (who will not shoot unarmed dissidents). Israel relies too much on new blood i.e immigrant Jews for keeping their SF good, something doesnt seem right there though the results seem good enough for now... just a gut feeling here.

Not sure if you typoed as mistake, but Oz is definitely still in the FPDA. It's been resigned and recommitted to in the last 12 months - and with a greater emphasis on active military co-operation wrt to issues like Piracy and CT Trg.

SpecOps is not only about being tough , but having the right technology for the job . In this regards , I would say : - Australia and Japan - Israel - China - S. Korea - Russia - India The rest is cheap ... Cheers . -

blue i have to disagree with you about specops types. the physical conditioning and nifty toys are very much secondary to specops soldiers. what really sets them aside from us mere mortals is attitude and mental toughness. if you can get a guy who can think unconventionally and who simply will not quit you can teach him the skill set, physically condition him and hand over the toys.

PeregrinePike: The Guards and Paras are Infantry regiments in the Indian Army. They are not special forces. Even the inter-corps, inter-regimental Rashtriya Rifles is not Special Forces. It is special only in the sense that it draws volunteers from all fighting arms. RR's objective is counter-insurgency. B Examples of Indian Special Forces are the MARCOS, modeled on US Navy Seals. I believe that US Navy helped the Indians during the creation of this force. I gotta go now, but I will post more later.